[docc]

Today, the Sport groaned a bit on the start up. That's not happened since I found the broken yellow wire under the alternator cover.

Oh, no! Another played regulator? Flinky earthing, again?

vDC at idle: 12.5, vDC at 5k: 13.38. Not good.

I put the Hawker on the 2 amp charger and it gradually increased its charge from about 12.4 (not good) to about 13.3.

I then *flashed* the AGM with a 10 amp charge until it reached 15.5 vDC (took three to five minutes), and followed up with a 2amp charge until the battery would hold 14.92 (45 minutes to an hour).

Now, the idle voltage is 13.10, and the voltage at rpm is 13.61.

I must be letting my AGM battery get soft. I remember Hubert speaking of this before. . .

[Kiwi_Roy]

docc, on 15 July 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

Oh, no! Another played regulator? Flinky earthing, again?

Here is the basic circuit.
The 3 regulators I have pulled apart have had a bad connection to one of the diodes at top of drawing.
Test your diodes with a multimeter on diode range. You should see about 0.5V when you connect the red probe to one of the yellows and the black probe to the regulator red. Open circuit when you reverse the leads.
If you don't have the diode tester you can check with a battery and lamp.

The other drawing shows the readings I obtained after overhauling my regulator.

Note:
Pulling the headlight fuse doesn't save power, the regulator picks up 12 volts from that circuit as a reference without it there will be no current and the battery will go flat.
If you need to conserve power unplug the headlight at the steering column or pull the lamp.

Roy

Attached File(s)

•  Regulator Basic2.pdf (27.42K)
  Number of downloads: 19
•  Charging Circuit.pdf (32.99K)
  Number of downloads: 15

[gstallons]

Diodes can be checked using an analog ( remember the ones with a needle instead of a digital display) meter. Connect the leads to each end of the diode, then reverse the leads. If it shows continuity in one direction and infinity in the other direction, it is probably good.
p.s. it is a good idea to check any component "out of circuit " to keep the other parts from influencing the meter readings.

[emry]

Hey Kiwi Roy, while I have not cut into a rec/reg lately, shoudn't the recitifer portion be a bridge, while the scr's are used in the regulator portion to dump a/c?

[Kiwi_Roy]

emry, on 17 July 2010 - 07:39 AM, said:

Hey Kiwi Roy, while I have not cut into a rec/reg lately, shoudn't the recitifer portion be a bridge, while the scr's are used in the regulator portion to dump a/c?

No, not in the Ducati regulator, the 2 SCRs are part of the bridge they turn off breaking the circuit when the Voltage is up. On my Suzuki they shorted out the alternator as you say.
Here's the full circuit and explanation, my interpretation anyway.
Roy

Attached File(s)

•  Regulator Schematic.pdf (38.02K)
  Number of downloads: 16

[docc]

After the 15.5 volt "wake up" charge, the battery is holding 12.72, charge at idle is 13.3 and the full 13.7 comes on at 2000 rpm.

The battery is 4 1/2 years old, stator about 1 year, and the regulator 5 1/3.

The flash charge made a real difference. For now.

Really, I seem to recall Luhbo had a more complete and well established method for this. I believe it involved using the proprietary charger for the AGM.

[GuzziMoto]

docc, on 17 July 2010 - 03:53 PM, said:

After the 15.5 volt "wake up" charge, the battery is holding 12.72, charge at idle is 13.3 and the full 13.7 comes on at 2000 rpm.

The battery is 4 1/2 years old, stator about 1 year, and the regulator 5 1/3.

The flash charge made a real difference. For now.

Really, I seem to recall Luhbo had a more complete and well established method for this. I believe it involved using the proprietary charger for the AGM.

That does not sound good. I would expect to see at least 14 volts.

[raz]

GuzziMoto, on 18 July 2010 - 01:54 AM, said:

That does not sound good. I would expect to see at least 14 volts.

While I agree, I would not care much as long as it's net charging at idle - and it seems it is. If anything, I would do a diode test between red and yellow cables like Roy describe somewhere. Pretty easy to fit an external one and all will be fine.

[Dan M]

raz, on 17 July 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

While I agree, I would not care much as long as it's net charging at idle - and it seems it is. If anything, I would do a diode test between red and yellow cables like Roy describe somewhere. Pretty easy to fit an external one and all will be fine.

I always look for a net charge as well but a noticable voltage change or fluctuation is an indication that something is on the horizon.

[GuzziMoto]

Dan M, on 17 July 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

I always look for a net charge as well but a noticable voltage change or fluctuation is an indication that something is on the horizon.

I would agree. My fear would be that something is starting to circle the drain.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I observed -3 at idle after overhauling the regulator but perhaps I'm idling too slow. If anyone wishes to add an ammeter look
at the drawing I posted #2 from top. The proper location is "Position 2", this will show the net charge (current to and
from the battery not including starter)
Under the seat would be a good location for a small ammeter thus keeping the wires short hard to see while riding however
A digital mV meter could be added up front using a simple shunt under the seat e.g. 10 mV per Amp, that would require just
small wires from the seat to dash, I could draw that up if anyones interested. I think mV kits should still be available,
failing that a small cheap multimeter would work.
Roy

[Skeeve]

Kiwi_Roy, on 15 July 2010 - 10:37 PM, said:

Here is the basic circuit.
The 3 regulators I have pulled apart have had a bad connection to one of the diodes at top of drawing.
Test your diodes with a multimeter on diode range. You should see about 0.5V when you connect the red probe to one of the yellows and the black probe to the regulator red. Open circuit when you reverse the leads.
If you don't have the diode tester you can check with a battery and lamp.

The other drawing shows the readings I obtained after overhauling my regulator.

Thanks for that, but doesn't it beg the real question: How do we graft a Yamaha vr [recognized as being the most rugged/reliable of the J4-branded voltage regulators] onto our Guzzis so we can stop worrying about this sh!t once & for all?

[macguzzi]

I'm still using original spark battery from 2002!

[Kiwi_Roy]

macguzzi, on 18 July 2010 - 12:17 PM, said:

I'm still using original spark battery from 2002!

I just changed my 2001 Spark late last year
I think it may have been OK still if the PO hadn't stored it for a year and the regulator hadn't quit.
I ended up paying $190 for a Yuasa in a panic so you may want to have one on hand while you can shop around
Get it dry with the acid to add. The Yuasa is quite simple to commission.

Roy

[Kiwi_Roy]

Skeeve, on 18 July 2010 - 09:21 AM, said:

Thanks for that, but doesn't it beg the real question: How do we graft a Yamaha vr [recognized as being the most rugged/reliable of the J4-branded voltage regulators] onto our Guzzis so we can stop worrying about this sh!t once & for all?

Sorry, I just noticed your question.
The Yamaha charging system is quite a bit different
The Yamaha alternator and I think most other bike alternators are 3 phase (3 wires), the Guzzi is single phase (2 wires)
A 3 phase system gives a much smoother DC from the regulator because there is always one set of coils generating Voltage 120° apart whereas the single phase alternator stops sending power to the battery for a good portion of the cycle. Because of this gap it needs to send higher current pulses to make up for lost time.
The Yamaha (& Suzuki) regulator operates by shorting out the alternator coils when the battery is up to voltage
The Guzzi regulator operates by opening the circuit when the battery is up to voltage.
I guess in theory it would be possible to convert the guzzi to 3 phase but I think at the very least it would mean a new stator. If someone has there stator out they could count the coil slots, the number would have to be divisible by 6 I think or at least by 3
I should point out I'm not a motor winder.
You could just try the Yamaha regulator leaving the third input wire disconnected, it might work but there again the single phase Guzzi alternator might cook it, or cook itself.
Myself, I decided to design my own regulator using much beefier components 50 Amp instead of about 25 Amp. I have most of the parts, just need to find the time.