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PeterT

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    Rugby, UK
  • My bike(s)
    Ghezzi-Brian V11Trofeo

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  1. I've been running a BC LiFePO4 battery in my V11 for the last 7 years. It is 1 size smaller than BC recommend for a V11 (mine is a BCTZ14S-FP-S 12V, 54Wh) but I needed this size to fit in the Ghezzi Brian tail. It is incredibly light. It puts out loads of cranking amps. I measured it using special resistive shunt and an oscilloscope, and the initial peak current was nearly 500A before it rapidly subsided as the engine cranked over. Yes they do seem to put out less current when cold so I agree with previous comments. But they do keep their charge remarkably better than a lead type, assuming there is little or no small leakage current to drain them. One thing to bear in mind is that their capacity is not as large (they are, after all a fraction of the weight and about half to 1/3rd of the volume). The 12V, 54Whr of the LiFePO4 battery corresponds to 4.5 Ampere-hours, while the original equipment lead battery fitted is 13Ah. This is really only required to make the lead battery big enough to reduce its internal resistance so it can give enough cranking amps. The LiFePO4 battery can do this from a much smaller size because it has a fundamentally much smaller internal resistance. Obviously, you don't need much capacity to start, so the smaller capacity is fine, but if anything does drain the battery while it is not charging (like leaving the parking lights on when parked or if your charging circuit has a fault) the battery will become flat about 3 times quicker. I have a voltmeter fitted to the dashboard so I can see exactly when it is charging as I have had overheating problems with the small 30A charging mini fuse holder but I have cured this by putting in a new, much larger, Maxi fuse-holder on a dedicated flying lead that is capable of taking 100A fuses: obviously I still only put in a 30A fuse but it has cured the tendency for the charging circuit to fail due to degradation of the fuse holder contacts. This brings me to my last point which is that when I put the bike on its intelligent charger its self diagnostic does not like the leakage current the bike takes and it says the battery is faulty. This is due to leakage current through the diodes of the alternator rectifier (I think more modern bike rectifiers have diodes with much lower leakage current), so I remove the 30A fuse to isolate it and all is well. This would seem to me to be a good precaution if you use a LiFePO4 battery if it is being laid up for any time, whether you put it on the a maintenance charger or not. In fact, for a standard V11 the rectifier is probably the only significant current drain and once this is removed, the LiFePO4 battery seems to maintain charge almost indefinitely.
  2. The selector spring in my 2005 manufactured V11 failed after only 21000 miles. The Piaggio dealers that I managed to limp to in 2nd gear (I think) couldn't get a replacement spring quickly so I got one from Gutzibits in the UK. So I'm not sure if this was better, worse or the same as the standard part. Since this is my one and only mechanical breakdown in what is now 45000miles of happy riding, I have followed this thread with interest. Understandably, after a further 27000 miles since the last spring failure, I am concerned that it is due to fail again, possibly when touring abroad; I'm going to the Picos in Spain at the end of next month. Can anyone help me by letting me know how I can get hold/buy of one of these superior springs? I am in the UK.
  3. I've had my share of problems with the starter motor but I've never had any problems with my micro relays. That's not to say that the starter contactor may not draw a short-term current that could cause problems, it's just not something I've experienced (yet). However, I have experienced exactly the same symptoms; lights dim when starter button pressed and you hear the click of the starter contactor but it doesn't crank, or ties to so weakly that you know it's not going to start. You try again and sometimes it may work, sometimes not. The cause in my case (and this is the reason I thought I'd add to the wisdom already given) was that the crimped (female) blade that pushes onto the starter motor contactor, was not particularly strong/grippy and had a bit of corrosion in it. Sorting this out cured the problem. Effectively insufficient current could be drawn by the contactor coil to pull in the starter contacts strongly enough, these then added extra resistance to the starter motor circuit and the motor cranked weakly or not at all. Perhaps it was this that caused the actual starter motor contacts to arc and pit, because soon after this I had the same thing again, but this time diagnosed that it was these main contacts that take up to 500A peak and typically interrupt the 120- 150A d.c. cranking current in an inductive circuit. This in itself is something that you might expect to cause degradation over time. Anyway, having checked that it wasn't the same thing again and diagnosed that the actual main contacts were adding abnormal contact resistance, I fitted a new starter and this solved the problem. So my contribution in all this talk of getting better relays (and of course the relay could also cause a weak pull-in of the starter motor contactor relay) is to make sure you have checked these other two causes.
  4. Peter,

             You should either pull the ignition switch apart every couple of years or bypass the switch somehow

    There are several good fixes available

    Cheers

    Roy

  5. I had a similar problem on my 2005 V11 but I didn't think about the possibility that the volts may be dropped across degraded contacts of the ignition switch that feeds the contacts of the starter mini-relay and through that the starter contactor coil. So I'm definitely NOT saying that any of the previous conversation and ideas are wrong. Quite the opposite. Putting a voltmeter on the input to the starter motor contactor would show whether this is the problem, especially if you know what the normal voltage drop should be. My, hopefully positive, contribution to this thread is to say that my diagnosis was that there was a problem with the starter motor contactor whose contacts seemed to add sufficient resistance to make cranking poor or to stall. It was never clear to me whether the mechanical contactor mechanism degraded and was getting partially seized so as to put less contact pressure on its starter contacts, or if it was simply that the starter contacts themselves had started to pit and degrade. All I noticed was that the starter motor was very slow (or would fail to crank) but often would start OK on the second attempt. My hypothesis was that this was either because the battery was a bit warmer and delivered a bit more current to the contactor coil or perhaps the main contactor contacts just closed with a bit less contact resistance that time. I got a new starter and the problem was solved, so, in my case at least, I feel that the problem was a degradation in the motor contactor mechanism or contacts. At 500A transient peak and 150A cranking, just the slightest extra contact resistance can be disastrous and with this d.c. current you might expect contactor deterioration over time. But the possibility that the contactor coil does not get sufficient current to pull in the main motor contacts strongly would have exactly the same effect so worth bearing both in mind before investing in a new starter.
  6. I've tried a few different tyres on my V11 and carefully logged the wear rate and experience. Starting with Metzler Sportec M5 that felt a bit less grippy in the damp and wet and would feel "squemish" when traversing painted while line in the wet. They only lasted 4k miles. I then tried Metzler Sportec M7RR; the latest version at the time. They felt a bit better in the wet and the life was about the same; around 3.5 to 4,5k miles with slightly more life for the front than the rear, although I always change both at the same time to keep them in step and avoid having to spend even more time going to the tyre shop. I then tried Pirelli Rosso III's. They were even better than the Metzler in the wet and lasted a bit longer too; 5k at the rear and, potentially 6k on the front. I then tried Pirelli Rosso Corsa II's and they were a bit better still in the wet and possibly wear very slightly better as I got 5.5k out of the last pair (though this might be that I'm getting smoother or slower) and I've fitted these the last three times.
  7. Thanks, I thought the Ohlins documentation was more likely to be correct but I thought someone would know for sure. Just worth checking before I start "fiddling" with the settings.
  8. I've just changed the fork oil on my V11 with the Ohlins suspension myself after having the forks professionally restored some 12000 miles ago. (They were giving me oil leak problems and the mechanic saw some minor corrosion/pitting that he thought might be responsible for new seals not curing the problem. Since getting them professionally recoated and nitrided I have had no problems. The company I used was Brookes Suspension in Leeds, UK) In looking for information prior to changing the fork oil I looked at various sources of information and in doing so I saw what appears to be a mistake in the Guzzi Owners manual or the Ohlins documentation. The Guzzi manual says that the Allen key adjustment at the top of the forks is for compression damping and the Allen key adjustment at the bottom is for rebound damping. However, I also found on the internet, an Ohlins PDF document for the FG43 fork for the Moto Guzzi Scura (that I'm assuming is the same as my 2005 Cafe Sport) that very clearly shows the top adjuster is for rebound and the bottom for compression damping. Which is right or have I picked up the wrong Ohlins documentation? Having partially dismantled the forks I am tempted to try experimenting with adjusting them and perhaps re-setting them up since I am on the "lighter than average" side and my Ghezi-Brian conversion took 30kgs off the weight; hence my interest in clearly understanding what does what before I start. Can anyone clear up this confusion?
  9. Apart from the 30A charging fuse and fuse-holder that you have been advised to check, the other place to look is the plastic 4-wire connector (two +ve and two black) that the alternator regulator are plugged into that takes the power to the fuses at the rear of the bike. Mine is cable-tied onto the front frame just inside and at the front-left of the fuel tank. Because it is 4x 15A/connection, it isn't of the sealed AMP type but a less sealed connector, and, as a result, can get wet and corroded if it isn't well protected by Vaseline or anti-corrosion grease. Having parallel connectors and wires is also a fundamentally poor bit of electrical design since if any one connector goes high resistance, all 30 A can go through one 15A wire, overheat it, and potentially damage other wires in the wiring loom.
  10. I found this thread v. useful since I too found my small, outer, unsealed needle cage all rusted up just like the pictures shown. Greasing it at every tyre change is a "must" from now on! So armed with this info I bought myself a slide hammer bearing puller (only £35 from Amazon), a new needle bearing and inner race and a canister of freeze release. I did try "wacking" the back of the bearing to drive it out from the other side using a thick steel rod before I realised that I was just hitting a thick steel washer that the bearing is squashed against that appears to be trapped in by a steel cylinder that lines the surface into which the bearing is inserted So at this point I looked at this thread and got myself properly prepared. I levered out the inner cage and needles with a screwdriver to give me a surface to pull against. I heated up the bevel box first by just setting it close to domestic room heating electric fan. The bevel box was still filled with oil. Using my meter that has a thermocouple and a setting to read its temperature, this showed that I got the whole box to about 45-50deg.C. I then inserted my 30mm puller and expanded it to catch the outer lip of the bearing and I squirted some of the freeze/light oil release (though I'm not really convinced that this actually did anything). I then spent about 10-15 minutes playing my hot-air gun around the needle bearing, monitoring the surface temperature until it got up to 100deg.C, and then used the slide hammer. It did pull the bearing up about 4mm before the outer lip distorted, expanding just enough to allow the puller to detach. Now that there was a gap at the back I then re-seated it against the back face, tightened it up, gave it another freeze spray and reheated it back up to 100deg.C and then with about 5 or 6 modest slide-hammer wacks it came out. I am now just carefully contemplating how I can pull in the new bearing with a bolt down the central axle hole after, heating it up to what appears to be an obligatory 100deg.C. Any good thoughts or things I should be careful of here?
  11. Thanks for some good suggestions that I'm sure will be helpful to me and any others who have this specific problem. Thanks
  12. Yesterday I looked on this excellent forum for any ideas that may explain poor cranking and starter performance that rather suddenly appeared when I tried starting in the morning after a fairly cold night (around 6deg.C 43F) a few weeks ago. I first assumed that, after 5 seasons my LiPO battery was starting to age and with the cold and higher oil viscosity that this was the problem so I bought a new battery. The effect seemed to be temperature related; always being a problem when cold starting. The new battery didn't cure the problem; hence my looking at the forum. There didn't seem to be a dedicated topic focused on exactly this problem, hence this new specific topic, but by various searches i did find a few ideas, even one that reported a similar problem because they had put in 20W-40 oil rather than the recommended 5W-40 oil and this became a problem on a cold day. In fact I made a list of all the possible options and there are lots, (battery, starter, starter contactor, connections etc. including the possibility of the magnets becoming demagnetised (on a Ferrari forum), but obviously the most likely was a poor connection so I stripped down all the connections between battery and starter, including the heavy duty earth cable that fixes to the gearbox casing, cleaned them, added corrosion protective grease and reattached but really didn't see anything that gave me the slightest concern. However, on dismantling I did take off the insulated spade terminal that supplies the voltage to the starter contactor and it didn't feel a tight push-on. I used pliers to compress the jaws of the female insulated terminal, cleaned up the spade that emerges from the starter contactor next to the large +ve starter terminal and reattached. Problem solved! Obviously high resistance to the contactor coil can cause the contactor to pull in rather weakly, leading to high resistance in the main starter contacts and a weak start. I am putting this experience out just in case anyone has a similar problem. It might be useful for others to add their own experiences associated with solving the problem of the starter motor working but having difficulty in cranking the engine as quickly as normal.
  13. I've had a a Lithium Iron battery fitted for 5 seasons and it has not needed any change to the regulator at all. In fact I have a voltmeter fitted. The battery starts at about 13.2V with the 6A pre-starting load. Once it starts the voltage slowly rises as the generator recharges the battery from the starting load and the regulator gets it up to about 13.9-14V max which the makers say is perfect. I got it fitted by Ghezzi Brian in Italy and this was the battery they recommended. I'm sure they have lots of experience with these. BC battery BCTZ14S-FP-S.BC do a range. I got it on e-bay for just over £110. This is the second to largest LiFe battery BC make for bikes and specifically for starting. I think they recommend the largest one for a V11, but with the Ghezzi Brian tail mod I have this is the one that fits so it's all credit to the battery that it has lasted longer than any lead acid I ever had. It is fantastically light. I measured the peak transient cranking current and it peaked at just under 500A! before it subsided as the motor cranked the engine to a fluctuating 150-200A. I do put a LiFe Optimiser battery charger/health monitor on it over the winter although if disconnected these batteries keep their charge better than lead-acid. One other bit of experience is that they don't like low temperatures. Below 10deg.C; the internal resistance goes up and becomes noticeable in reducing the initial starting current. However, if it is a cold morning start, then the current does start to warm it and everything is OK. You can either let the lights load warm it a bit first or just start it - you just get a weak initial start when you first push the button but this load warms the internals. Above 10deg.C you are unaware of anything different and the bigger battery they recommend will almost certainly make this effect significantly smaller.
  14. The best way of thinking about what is happening is to think of the way you would arrange for a relay to latch itself ON and not turn off. The way this is achieved is to connect up the contacts so that if you energise the coil, it switches connects a live (12V) feed to the side of the coil being energised. So, when the initial coil energisation is removed, the relay stays energised directly from the battery. This is what is happening on the V11. The lights are connected directly to the battery; they don't go through the ignition switch but, if everything works correctly, the ignition switch energises the lights relay and this switches on the lights and off when the ignition is switched off. What is happening is that a short circuit between this circuit and the output of the ignition switch is keeping the lights ON AND energising the output of the ignition switch and keeping the engine running. In effect it is just like the simple latching relay circuit. And the only way to switch it off is to interrupt the coil current which pulling in the clutch and pressing the starter button does. In fact, if I'm right, you don't need the tank and to start and run the engine to get this effect. Just switch on the ignition. The lights will come on but if you switch off the ignition, the lights will stay on. Assuming this happens, I think you can be confident it is a short between the red/black wire and the Orange/blue wire that is causing the problem. Now, your comment that if you disconnect the 5-way everything works OK is also interesting. The red/black wire goes through pin 4, but the Orange/Blue wire that goes to contact 3 of the ignition switch does not. However, if if you have the side-stand down, the Orange/Blue wire could be falsely energised if there was a short-circuit between the red/Black and the white wire that goes between the Neutral gear relay and the 5-way connector and this also connects to the White/brown of pin 2 of the 5-way if the run-stop switch is closed. This would imply that the fault between these two wires is not in the long harness down the spine of the bike to the relays in the rear but in the wiring and switches of the RH handlebar controls, either in the 5-way connector, the wiring or the control switches themselves. This is good news. Can you put a meter across the various pins in the 5-way connector when it is disconnected? I'd specifically look to see what pin 4 (Red/black) seems to be connected to. It should connect to pin 5 if you collapse the side-stand, but should not connect to any of the other 3 wires. My expectation is that you will find a spurious connection between the red/black on pin 4 and the adjacent White/ Brown of pin 2 or possibly the white wire of pin 1 that are connected together by putting the kill switch into the RUN position. If so you then need to work out if the problem is a fault in the RH handlebar switches, in the connector or the wiring between them.
  15. OK. This I can understand. Fuses 6 and 7 power the parking lights and direction indicators and are turned on by the ignition switch that feeds them from contact 2 on the ignition switch. So, when you turn off the ignition switch, they should stop working. What has confused us is that the rest keeps working. But this is understandable because it is only the wiring from contact 3 of the ignition switch that is being kept on by the fault short-circuit between the Red/Black wire coming from the Lights mini-relay. Since this is fed directly from the battery via Fuse 4, it doesn't go through the ignition switch, and so this fault can keep this circuit working until you pull in the clutch and press the starter. At this point it de-energises the lights relay and interrupts this faulty supply. So this is all consistent with there being a fault between the red/black wire from the lights relay and the Orange/blue wire from the ignition switch that goes to the starter and the Neutral Gear mini-relays as well as to the front dashboard 12-way Amp connector to power the neutral lamp. So i really think we have it nailed. Disconnect the ends of these wires at the relays, ignition switch, side-stand switch and 12-way connector. Test between them to prove they are shorted. If they are then run new wires, sleeve them, replace the terminals and reconnect and tie them neatly in parallel with the harness to take their place. Let me know how you get on.
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