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Meinolf last won the day on March 17 2020

Meinolf had the most liked content!

About Meinolf

  • Birthday 04/30/1959

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  • My bikes
    Norge, V11, LM3, Mille GT, V1000G5+TR5 sidecar, 850 T5 Carabinieri, SPIII and assorted other makes
  • Location
    Uelversheim, Germany

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  • Interests
    Motorcycling, my kids, reading, metal craft, sport

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  1. Hi John, the procedure as I understand it is as follows. The ECU goes thru an initial process to determine the engines rotational status. Eg, which cylinder is where and in which state, compression or emptying the bucket. This is governed by the toothed wheel attached to the camshaft and the engine position sensor and takes several engine rotations. After the status has been established and verified the fuel phase table takes over. This table contains rotational degree values which are the starting point for the calculation of coil discharge and injector opening time. They are used in a backward calculation. Which makes sense if one considers that the behaviour of any coil is depended on voltage (and coil design characteristics) and the logarithmic charging characteristics. So the tooth wheel and the missing teeth provide the starting point for the capcom-ops in the code which do the pulse-counting. This starting point (from a rotational point of view it's behind TDC) is in fact the point at which the circuits are opened again. Meaning, the point at which the discharge of the coil or the opening of the injector end. So the calc looks like this: Endpoint (fuel phase table value) + coil charging time/injector opening time = coil discharge start/injector opening The code also contains a trim table to take care of the voltage dependencies. Eg, lower voltage requires a longer coil charging time/injector opening time to achieve the same effect due to the slower coil saturation. So, the answer to your question "Does the ECU vary the period it opens" is yes, it does. Based on the terrific analysis of the components used in the 5AM ECU done by John Th. we know that the current draw is used as another factor in the 5AM (and presumably later generations). I don't know if this current draw was already used in the 15M/RC. Cheers Meinolf
  2. Hi John, I can probably contribute something, but need to know which ECU you are referring to. Cheers Meinolf
  3. Hi Pete, Thanks for the excellent explanation, very well done. Meinolf
  4. Hi, the explanations here https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23210-tps-reset/&do=findComment&comment=265226 may shed some light on the valve play/bypass screw topic. The atmospheric conditions (baro pressure/ambient temperature) are taken care of by trim tables. I can't comment on the fuel quality, though. But, if it did then any combustion engine in your area would need a adaption, wouldn't they? Cheers Meinolf
  5. Hi, allow me to step in and add some comments. If I mentioned a valve play of 0,3mm for the V11 camshaft, then I made a mistake. The V11 camshaft is well designed and doesn't need any additional play to overcome (too) long slopes. The 0,3mm are recommended for all OEM pre-CARC camshafts, as they have a tremendously long slope. As a result the valves are slightly open for more than 100° CW before the actual opening cycle, with the accompanying loss of pressure in the combustion chamber and increased valve temperature for lack of cooling time with the valves connecting to the seat. My recommended settings for the bypass screws and CO trim are only intended to simplify the usage of the BIN with different engines than mine. CO trim can be set accurately, but many seem to have problems adjusting it with GuzziDiag while the engine is running. I always choose the easier path of directly modifying the CO trim values in the EEPROM. The bypass screws are more problematical, as my 1/2 turn opening might be your 1/2+1/16 turn opening. They are not graduated. The impact of CO trim (+/- fuel) and bypass (+/- air) is most pronounced a low TPS settings. So the idea is to avoid this potential pitfall, especially the potential mis-syncing of both cylinders. My BIN is based on AFR measurements and my targeted AFR targets for the respective breakpoints. (Btw, I've revisited the 15M and to a lesser degree the 15RC code and found that the code contains a calculation which causes CO trim to taper off and disappear at 3000rpm) Some may remember that the measuring and logging on the V11 was done with highly dissatisfying equipment form Innovate. I eventually switched to Zeitronix, ZT2 and 3, which are much better, for my efforts with the Jackal and Norge. As this is mostly finished I moved the equipment to the V11 and started re-measuring it. The result is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nIzV4LkFXJUyDMalLagnWb6c9I_0R0Bt/view?usp=sharing Changes versus the 93_6 BIN are fuel values (improved AFR synchronicity between the cylinders) and changed ignition values (the engine runs less harshly in the 4-5k rpm/~15-30° TPS area. I will continue to work on the ignition, but since I have no means of measuring the effect except for my seat-of-pants, this is the area where the biggest remaining improvements are hidden. I've also noticed that, after re-working the butterfly valves and the shafts, there's an much larger than expected discrepancy between fuel values over the first two TPS breakpoint columns. As I intend to open the engine anyway to inspect the valves, I'll revisit the throttle bodies as well. This is mostly a cosmetic issue, the bike runs splendidly. But first the rebuild of the Mille GT (change to a BMW K100 fork with 41,3mm diameter instead of 35mm, new camshaft, improving the valve timing, ....) and the SPIII rebuild after I was crashed by a young Italian lady in the hills above Genua have to be finished. Cheers Meinolf
  6. Hi, maybe this will clarify some of the questions. AFR/Lambda and ignition timing are closely intertwined. The flame through speed of the mixture varies with Lambda, up to -20%. The fuel values in my V11 BIN are based on a Lambda target map, which is based, amongst other considerations, on MAP at the respective breakpoints. I use a meager mixture at low MAP breakpoints and richer mixture in areas with less throttling loss. Hence the fuel values vary a lot from one breakpoint to neighboring ones if this is where the target lamba changes from 1.0 to 0.94 (as example). This variation is most pronounced when moving from the fuel shut-off area (better engine breaking) to the fuel-injected areas. The ignition values reflect the mixture. Meager mixture = earlier ignition, richer mixture = later ignition. The earliest ignition values are used in the fuel shut-off area to minimize popping in the exhaust, which is caused by a lean mixture not igniting in time. As to the thread topic - the hiccup. If no other faults, most of them were already mentioned in this thread, are present, hicc-ups in my experience are always the result of a lean mixture. The V11 engine runs reasonably well with Lambda 1, but deteriorates quickly if the mixture gets leaner. Cheers Meinolf
  7. Hi Phil, Countersunk is factory standard, so a PO probably recognized the problem. Yeah, first grandchild and me becoming a semi-grandfather. So to say. And the little loves me, I bear scratches in my face as evidence
  8. Hi, While re-reading Phil's post one more thing came to mind. The throttle bodies, when fastened to the braces, are not well seated in the rubber thingies (can't remember the correct term). In other words, the screws and threads in the braces don't align well. They can be forced in, but then the throttle bodies sit slightly twisted in the rubber boots (ha, memory came to the rescue). Enlarged screw holes and regular cylindrical inbus screws seating on top of the braces allow for installation without tension and offer the benefit of screw heads which won't self-destroy during the next time the TBs are removed. Cheers Meinolf PS I'll post a picture when back in Germany. Just now I'm living the good life in a cafe in the old town of Limassol on Cyprus, visiting my mate's daughter and the first grandchild
  9. Hi Phil, thanks, a very lucid and detailed explanation. I re-worked the throttle bodies of my Jackal and V11 some years ago, some additional comments based thereupon. This is important, the butterfly valves have edges ground at an angle to fit to the throttle bodies when closed. The original screws block a substantial amount of the cross section, the two pictures (before/after) show the difference. Using flat-headed screws frees up some of the cross section, especially if the screw is selected (or made to fit) to the diameter of the shaft. For those willing to go further, one half of the shaft can be removed. Freeing up even more of the cross section for increased airflow. Cheers Meinolf
  10. Hi, I'm not sure if I know what you mean by “world spec”. The service manual recommends 0.15/0.1mm for exhaust/intake, I use 0.2/0.15mm respectively. But it's not critical in regards to my BIN. Cheers Meinolf
  11. Hi, I still get emails asking for the V11 BIN I made available several years ago. I can't find my post with the download links, which don't work anymore anyway, so here's the current download link. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e7MMuO6vrUZGFfmkCtL3zsW1qeS6uDgY/view?usp=sharing The base setup, and that's quite important to follow to get the best results, is: - TPS set to 157mV with all mechanical connectors removed and throttle completely closed - Both bypass screws completely closed - CO trim set to 0 - Idle sync with both (if so required) throttle stop screws - Running sync as usual And while we at it, here's the link to the Jackal (works with any California with 15M) BIN. Same base setup as V11, but I recommend a larger valve play of 0,3mm for exhaust and intake. The Jackal BIN is quite recent. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wb2LXrRrgDI1WO0krnb_GeiAvewbwA1K/view?usp=sharing Cheers Meinolf
  12. Meinolf

    Map Day

    Hi, it's 156.25mV or, if total accuracy is targeted, 8*(5/256) with as many decimals as can be successfully measured. Much success Meinolf
  13. Meinolf

    Map Day

    Hi, my valve play recommendation of 0.25mm valve play is based on the measurements done on the V11 camshaft. Less play leads to a much longer period at which the valves are already slightly opened. The effects are loss of mean pressure in the combustion chamber and less time for the valve to conduct heat to the seats. My V11 has run more than 85.000km with this setting. 0.157V as base setting for the TPS is recommended because the ADC in the ECU is a 8bit version. 5V are divided by 256 ($FF), which leads to a step of 0.01953...V. Multiplying this by 8 leads to the 156(.25mV). The 150mV found in the Guzzi literature is wrong, somebody at Guzzi or Marelli made a rounding error. I'm not saying that achieving 156mV is critical, to many factors including the quality of the DMM used come into play. But why not choose the correct value, if it is known, as target. Cheers Meinolf
  14. Hi, the point is the following. The ECU uses two tables with fuel injection values, left (main) and right (delta) cylinder. The tables are indexed by throttle opening (TPS value) and rpm. The TPS is attached to the right (delta) throttle. The challenge is to synchronize both throttle valves so that they are using the same TPS breakpoints. This is essential a small throttle openings, as the TPS breakpoints differ initially only very slightly. At idle the springs are pressing the butterfly valves against the stop screws. Due to the numerous joints there's some play, which is overcome when opening the throttle. So, two different states. Pressing at idle, drawing when opening the throttle. My description is a pre-requisite when using my BIN, as the fuel values were arrived at logging lambda data based on it. Cheers Meinolf
  15. Meinolf

    Decent Tune-up

    Hi, connect Guzzidiag, select graphical display and watch if the curve is smooth when opening/closing the throttle. Beware that there's a change in the gradient at 30°, it get's flatter when opening, due to the characteristics of this TPS's curve formula. Cheers Meinolf
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