pete roper

OK, I hadn't followed this at all so I'll chime in now with my .02c worth. Firstly I'd like to ask people how much reliability they are prepared to sacrifice? The Guzzi donk is essentially unchanged in it's oveall architechture since it's inception in 1967. It is, in all real ways, a horrible, antedeluvian bit of shit that should of been put out to pasture at the very latest by 1985 but it still keeps soldiering on. Why? Well basically because it is a profoundly GOOD design, punching far above it's weight and delivering a magnificence of true *ROAD* performance. No, it doesn't make 100BHP. No it's BMEP figures compared to anything *modern* are pitiable. Who really gives a fat, flying f*ck? If you want endless power go out and buy something that will give it to you straight out of the crate! Why even bother with THINKING about a Guzzi? The Current V11, or subsequent Griso/Breva engine is taken about as far as you can take the design and still hope to have any semblance of reliability. The cam fitted to the V11 is very similar to the old P3/SS cam and when we were fitting these in the eighties it was accepted that there was a trade off in terms of engine component longevity. You can fit much wilder cams, (a 620 x 8 from Megacycle for example.) but you start running into all sorts of problems, not just with reliability but also with simple clearances. Nobody seems to think about the engine architecture and the fact that as the camshaft spins the cam lobes approach the rods. This is one of the main limiting factors. Clearance! The reason why Guzzi rods were changed with the advent of the V11 was that the longer stroke and larger cam meant that if the old, dimensionally identical, rods were fitted the cam lobes biffed the tops of the rod bolts! you don't have to be a Mensa member to realize that this wouldn't be a good thing . Yes, you can drag over 100BHP out of a V11 engine. BUT it will be a touchy, cantankerous pig with virtually no enjoyment to be had anywhere but on a race track. If you ride on the track? Fine, but expect race track sized maintenance bills too!!!! The old saw of valve sizes is also one of the crustiest chestnuts in the book. Guzzi downszed the valves in the V11 motor from those in the 'Big Valve' LeMans for two main reasons. 1.) they could reduce the weight of the pistons a motza and b.) it gave a much cleaner combustion chamber shape allowing a better flame path and less places for end gas to get trapped. While any 'High Compression' piston will probably be a lot lighter than stock, (the FBF items are Wisecos, a good piston but I can get similar items forged here that weigh less.) a larger dome will, once again, compromise the combustion chamber shape and offer a greater chance fo the retention of detonation inducing end gasses to remain to contaminate the new charge. Cylinder fill, where it matters, in the midrange, is greatly assisted by smaller valves. That's the reason why with Phil's Mk IV LeMans based racebike we are going to be running mid-valve heads, not the big valvers it came with! Big valve are a pox on a slow reving 2 valve hemi like a Guzzi! Also, look at the fuel you're burning! It's crap, and it ain't gunna get any better! As for the bloke who gets his missus to follow him around in a van with special petrol???? Sorry, but I just don't know what to say. Are you bonkers? buying a really goo shock for the back and getting your suspension set up by an aknowledged expert will give you far more performance AND pleasure than running race fuel and you won't have a significant other who doubts your sanity into the bargain! No I'm not saying that keeping it standard is *best*, (Although it's certainly the easiest way of going about things.) but be sensible or expect to pay huge dollars in upkeep. I'll certainly be modifying my Griso but I'll also be realistic about what i can achieve and what I think that is is more to do with freeing up what it already has rather than chasing some Quixotic fantasy! Finally, then I'll shut up, the windage trays I have made are more an aid to the prevention of oil loss and the baffling of the sump to prevent exposure of the oil pick-up during acceleration than a power boosting device. A real *race* type windage plate would have scrapers to remove oil from the crank webs and a lattice of screens to collect particulate oil matter not only to reduce oil expulsion but to lower the resistance to the crank's spinning. Now while if you were going for a world speed record that might be worthwhile on a road bike it is, in my opinion, a pointless wank. Your opinion may differ. As Mr Pepperoni said, it's surprising how good the basic package is with a few simple mods and an understanding that it's never going to beat something like a CBR600 in a straight line. Hit a big bump mid corner though and you may well find that that extra weight and slower steering geometry that you've been cursing may just stop you from ending up as a tree ornament. It might not win you a race but it might save your life in a real world road situation. Pete

I replied to your msg. Having read this I tend to think your problem isn't a big end. Believe me, a shot big end is LOUD and they can't be a 'Little Bit' shot, that's like being a 'Little Bit' dead or a 'Little Bit' pregnant! The noise of a big end gone is a loud clatter, a "Donk-Donk-Donk!"/"Clang-Clang-Clang!" noise, not anything that could remotely be described as a 'Ticking'. Pete

Was this noise occuring just when you were wheeling the bike about? if so it's probably the brake as suggested. If though it is *creaking* when you move the suspension by sitting on the seat or such like I'd take a careful look at the shock bushings as you'll find seveal horror stories of Sachs shocks splitting their eyes on this forum if you do a search. The *creaking* could, in these circumstances, be due to the semi-seized bushes moving on the pivot bolts. Pete

Means I don't (Yet.) sell. Only service. But yes, I get all the tech bulletins etc. As soon as the web connection stuff goes through. There will probably be some caveats on what I can and can't make general knowledge but as you probably know I personally feel that the sharing of information is beneficial to all, both customers and the company as a whole so anything I can do to help people I will. Pete

As of this week I'm now an *official* service agent so if I can break anyones bike in southern NSW I'll happily do it for you Pete

THanks guys, it turned out to be a rooted crank position sensor New one is on it's way and all should be good. And yes, it'll be getting a new battery too. Pete

I snapped a few, mainly of our bike and our pit but I think I've got a few others too. Rob's mate Guy was there having some fun on his V4 Yammie 2 stroke which was a whole load of laughs! After we sorted an annoying self-inflicted ignition problem we had a grand old time. I'll try and post the pic's up on wildguzzi, simply because I think I've figured out how to do that. If anyone wants to link them to here that's fine by me, I'm just too spud-thick to do it! Amazing seeing the Cammies being given the trot by the ES3, (was it the ES3? I was otherwise engaged?) It's amazing what you can do with oddles of cash and a lot of time Good to meet Morris and Mr. Forrest Pete

When the valves float and get bent or when a rod decides to jump ship? Any other questions? Pete

Or at least suggestions. Bike is a Daytona RS, (another one, not the one with the biffed tank! :roll: ) Gutted muffler and aftermarket chip of, (as yet.) unknown provenance. The problem. Bike fires up but then dies the instant it gets to 2,000RPM. Starts again immediately but keeps on doing it. I'm told by the owner that if you remove one of the plugs and earth it to the head it will run on the other cylinder up to 6,000RPM before it dies. I haven't attempted this. What I have found out. One of the batteries is dead, only giving 1.2 V. the other one is OK, (I'm a bit surprised it will even turn over with only one working battery?) The problem started at a Gas Station on the way back from Phillip Island last weekend. He said it had been feeling a bit *fluffy* for 100Km or so. After he'd stopped to fill up the problem arose. Some thoughts, probably wrong, from me. Could it be that with only one battery the current draw was so large that as soon as the engine started and the button released the computer got spiked by a voltage surge. I have already swapped the relays, not because I thought that would be the problem but because it's simple and easy to do and wouldn't do any harm. Discuss.

I can't work out what it's really trying to say. I think probably "Oh f@ck, free up my breathing and re-map me and fit a pipe that will work with the crossover point from closed to open loop!" It's got so much going for it but if this is a typical example i think that a lot of people will be thinking twice. When I first got to the shop it was out with another bloke on a test ride. He has a Multistrada and some hideous BMW behemoth and was thinking of swapping to the Griso, principally because of the styling. He did say thoughthat he was having second thoughts as it didn't have the punch he was expecting and he didn't want to end up with two 'Armchairs' to use his word. He reckoned that because the Pig doesn't have clip-ons it's a *touring* bike Anyway one of the MOST important things for me is that I must be able to tour on it. Otherwise why buy one? My SP and 'Vert do that magnificently. I DO demand though that it can be made to handle pretty much as well as a *modern* bike AND, because I'm a bloody demanding sod, I do expect it to be able to handle some serious envelope-pushing in the twisties. The sit-up riding position isn't for me a problem. I ride like Gumby, I'm no racer. This is one of the many reasons I DON'T ride the race bike! My ability to concentrate to racetrack type level is very limited. I can go as fast as the next bloke for about three minutes and then I start making mistakes and get dangerous. On the track that's dangerous to other people. On the road it's more likely to be dangerous to me! I know my limitations and want to stay within them but I also want to be able to explore the limits of the machine. Something it's well nigh impossible for a mere mortal to do onan R6, never mind a Big Gixxer! I also like to be part of the refinement and improvement process, something that is prohibitively expensive with most other offerings! Sure you can buy 'Factory' race parts anbd bolt them in to make your *whatever* go even more like billy-oh but really whats the point when it already has more than you're ever likely to need? Good God? Even back in the days of big old CB1100 hondas we used to get them in running rough and the reason was that the silly buggers who'd bought them never rode them around off the pilot circuit and slide cuttaway on the carbs! On the rare occasions that they actually 'Gave it the Berries' the poor old atomisers were so full of crap that they couldn't carburete! We use to just hold 'em at full throttle till the pipes were almost white hot and then they ran like a charm again In a world where 600 supersports make the sort of power that a CB1100 could only dream of and weigh half as much, even with FI do you really think much has changed???? One thing that has remained constant over the time of my involvement with Guzzi is that they have always built great 'Platforms' for individuals to use as their own canvases. I see the Griso as a further example of this. It may well be that a year or so down the track they may jump us with a Nuovo LeMans using the basic engine architecture used in the Breva and Griso but up-speced and fitted with real rear-sets and clip-ons and genuinely *sporty* styling but I do feel that as in the past the *real* Guzzi owners will probably pick the Griso as the starting point rather than the 'LeMans'. It's such a brilliant 'Blank Page' and that means, for me at least, that there's life in the old dog yet Pete

OK, firstly this is just a simple ride impression and I'm not trying to give an objective evaluation. All of my observations will be very subjective and it should be remembered that I am an insufferable, oppinionated old bigot . I was very taken with the Griso from the moment the first pics of the production version appeared. The pre-production mock up always worried me a bit simply because it was using the 4V motor. While I do like the 4V motor it is a far more labour intensive unit to service and maintain and it's advantages over the 2V, pushrod powerplant have always, IMHO not warranted the extra time, effort and cost involved for only a modest performance gain. This though will be relevant to my overall fellings on the Big G as I ramble on. I'd previously dropped into the 'Local Shop' and spent a few minutes rubbing my groin all over the Griso but yesterday i decided"In for a penny? In for a pound!" and fronted up and asked for a test ride. Let it be said here that my relationship, if you can call it that, with my local dealer is what might best be described as *Strained* at the best of times but the sales pimply was OK about letting me take it out for a flogging so I grabbed the opportunity with both hands. The first thing you notice standing next to the bike is it's width. The second thing you can't miss is that huge can with the cat-con inside! The width thing is decieving. Once you're sitting on it it doesn't appear to have nearly such a gynocological examination type spreading effect as it at first appears. The pipe? Well? That's very much a matter of personal taste. I actually quite like it's appearance but there again I accept my tastes are rarely *mainstream*. Hopping on it and the first thing I noticed was that the handlebar position and placement is, for me, pretty much ideal. I might preffer to have the bars ever so slightly more angled in towards me but other than that the position was exactly as I like a a riding position to be. The footpegs were another matter. For many months now I've been riding the 'Vert almost exclusively, (Customers' bikes aside.) and this has low slung footboards that are quite far forward. The Griso by comparison has the pegs highish and further back and initially when I started riding it gave my hips some gyp but within 5Km I'd adapted and all was well. The pegs have to be at least this high anyway if you're going to exploit the way the Griso allows you to chuck it about. Turning on the ignition key the LCD speedo dash tells you that you're sitting on a Griso. Am I the only person who is enraged by such stupidity? I hate cars that talk to you and ring bells if the doors aren't shut or the lights aren't turned off when you stop and this sort of thing is another variant on the breed as far as I'm concerned. The tacho needle also sweeps stupidly and un-neccesarily around the dial too, Grrrrr! I hate gimicky stuff! Pressing the starter button gets everything running instantly and, atbleast on this machine, I didn't have to pull in the clutch to fire it up and neither did it have a sidestand cut-out. I didn't really check but this surprised me as I thought the nanny-staters had made this sort of sh!t compulsory nowadays? Once the engine is running picking first is an easy, if clunky, affair. In fact I found the box on this particular machine much, much rougherthan the one on the Breva I rode in Sydney a few months ago. Having said that this machine still had well under 1,000Km on it so it may well improve as the miles rack up. Some personal observations though about the gearbox. Firstly, the ratios are well spaced although I thought first was a bit low, remember though that my *manual* bike is a helically cut, five speeded Tonti with an Eldo flywheel and an 8/33 bevelbox I'm used to a REALLY tall first gear! it did though crunch significantly on all gear changes. The change was always instantaneous and accurate, (In fact one of the biggest problems I had was with selecting neutral at a standstill! Simply because the lever required such a gentle tap that it was easy to push it through neutral into first and then back up into second if you weren't really gentle!) but at least on this machine all changes were of the 'Dropping a brick in a bucket' type noisy! I hope that this improves with time but my Tonti boxes are quieter! It also wasn't overly diminished by changing the shift points higher or lower although short-shifting made the problem worse as you'd expect. This leads to my first *concern*. The box uses a variant of the 'Stacked washer' shock absorber on the input shaft and unless there is a rubber coupling in the driveshaft itself this is the only driveline shock absorber. Given the crunching going on during changes there is obviously a fair bit of backlash between the selector dogs and I wonder if the actual damping is sufficient to prevent damage to the gear teeth? Only time will tell and I'm simply speculating here, it's just that my experience with earlier, non cush driven, Guzzi gearboxes with a lot of driveline backlash has made me suspicious. OK, so wjhat's it actually like to ride? Well, bear in mind that this bike has not been set up for me, or anyone else for that matter judging by the suspension, first impressions are that some delicacy will be required to get things working well. The Showa forks on the front are a generic product fitted to lots of machines and Showas are a good fork. If they have one major failing it's that the springs sag early in the piece so I expect I'll have to purchase some decent ones within the first few years of ownership. this will of course vary from person to person depending on how and where they ride, if they are a great fat bastard like me or a skinny little runt and the quality of the roads. In rural NSW most roads are barely more than a selection of pot-holes randomly connected by bits of saggy tar! I expect to replace suspension components sooner rather than later . In the interests of giving it a workout i took the bike to one of the worst bits of *road* in the immediate environs of Canberra, the Sutton Road, which is reknowned as a ball-joint breaker on cars so it's a good test! Well either the springs are way too firm, (see above.) or the compression damping was wound off the scale both front and rear as the whole plot was very harsh. Having said that it tracks straight and true and never gave me any handling problems, it just felt far too stiff all round. Once again it was a very new machine and had had no set up done, I wasn't about to start playing with anything on a 30 minute test ride. Certainly compared to my old Tontis it seemed very nimble. The Rennsport rubber was vey sticky and you can use all of it, road surfaces and suspension permitting. Brakes? Well, they're modern Brembos. What more can you say. They are more than up to the task of hauling the Pig down from speed and have good feel and bite when the need arises. Probably the most disappointing aspect of the whole experience was the noise, or rather the lack of it. The exhaust is absolutely silent once you are above walking pace, you can't hear a thing, it really is an insipid disappointment. There is some induction noise and it is this that lets you know you're riding a Guzzi, not the exhaust. For all that I don't mind the looks of the pipe I'm sorry but it'll have to go. I'm not a believer in the Loud Pipes Are Good argument, but a certain degree of aural stimulation is an integral part of my motorcycling enjoyment and I'm sorry, but this just doesn't cut the mustard! Probably as a result of this I also found the performance disappointing. Once again with a new motor I wasn't going to take it much over 6,750rpm, and only there in short bursts, but the closely spaced gears meant that I seemed to be missing out on one of the Guzzi engines main attractions, it's stump pulling torque in the mid range. While I applauded the lowering of the internal primary ratio when I first read the Griso Specs I'm wondering if a set of the slightly higher Breva gears might not be a good idea as it would make it seem like you have to play gear swappsies less often. Not that I'm averse to rowing a bike through the gears at all, it just seemed to me that better use could be made of the spread of power with a slightly higher ratio. And yes, it'll loft the front wheel if asked to but it didn't seem to have the acceleration I was expecting from a macine with mid to high seventies rear wheel BHP. Again I think it's the pipe and maybe the ainduction system that are fouling things up? This engine has, ex-factory, most of the old hot-rod hot up tips. A moderately exciting cam, twin plug heads, a better rod/stroke ratio blah-blah-blah. It SHOULD go harder than this one did. So it seems that once again the customers will end up shelling out for a PCIII or a Tuneboy and a decent set of pipes and some airbox mods to get it to perform as it should. Shame really but I don't think that it's somewhat spineless character is down to the factory, it's down to the ridiculously draconian legislation affecting all vehicles nowadays and an old air cooled twin is really struggling in this environment. Has this test ride put me off buying one? Not a bit! Sure I'd like to have had a bit *More* straight out of the crate but that isn't to be. I accept that any motorbike I buy is going to get fiddled with, modified and have a heap of dubious *improvements* done to it. If you are someone who really wants just a standard bike that goes like stink from the get-go I'd honestly suggest buying a Japanese twin or four. If though you like being different, if you are willing to put up with a few idiocyncrasies and most of all if you are willing to spend a bit of money on stuff to actually improve your bike rather than spending it on belt-buckles, T-shirts and jewlery I reckon that the Griso is a spectacularly good platform to start from. In the same way that the T3 used to be the base platform on which everybody built their Tonti specials I'll bet London to a Brick that within a year or so the Guzzi netherworld will be a-throb with modified Grisos, (Grisi?). I hope this hasn't put people off, as I said, it hasn't put me off at all. The hype may well of got to some folks though and they may of expected a world beater. Well, in my opinion it's not a world beater in any way apart from style, but it's certainly a huge step in the right direction and, IMHO a vast improvement over the spineframes of which I've never been a great fan. This itteration of the venerable twin will probably be tha very last of the air cooled two valved twins that have kept Mandello afloat for forty years. OK, like an aging athlete that is way past it's prime you can tell that it'll have to go into steroid-overload to keep with the pack. But it has style to burn, dignity and class and for something that is almost as old as I am that's a pretty good testament to it's fundamental strengths. Better to be honest about what I think than lull people into too high exectations and a sence of disappointment when it isn't what they expected Pete

And there was I thinking I was Lost in the Ozone Again Hey Keith, I gotta agree on your choice of Top CC album and song. Mama Hated Diesels is the most godawful tear-jerker ever written! Love it!!!! Pete

Where are you? 'Planet Earth' isn't really very helpfull Pete

I got up and took the Mighty 'Vert for a run into Canberra via the back roads, March really is a wonderful month for riding! Warm, Clear, little or no wind, (Often a problem on the tablelands where I live.). Then I went home again and embarked on a long and acrimonious and essentially fruitless fight with my repulsive 12 year old son to try and get him to understand the importance of education, horrible little bastard! Pete

What? You mean it isn't supposed to look like that?????? Are you going to be around Jim? Pete

Anyone at a loose end next weekend in Sydney? It's the Barry Sheene Memorial at Eastern Creek and the first opportunity for the Motomoda race bike to grenade this season chasing the Paul Smart Ducati Anyway, we'll be in pit 23 if anyones about, drop in to have a yarn and a laugh. Pete

According to the folks I've talked to at the importer the major componentry of the CARC is the usual Guzzi standard of being grossly over-engineered. I was also told, I think be either Mike or Greg Field that the actual CW bearings are tapered rollers so they should be well up to the task of taking axial loadings imposed by the drive, the *problem* bearing should, in theory at least, be taking very little in terms of side loadings as the AC bearing on the other side should take care of that. Only thing I wonder is if that AC has a polyamide cage? If so I think I'd piss that off when I had the opportunity too. Looking at it though I honestly don't think it's likely to be an issue. If it turns out I'm wrong then I'd imagine that machining the case to either increase oil flow to that bearing or installing a higher capacity bearing will have to be the way to go. As Mike says it has all the hallmarks of Guzzi Accounts rabid bean-counterism rather than a failing in the design dept. I may be wrong but I have rarely see genuinely *bad* engineering from Guzzi. Of course that may of changed since my guess is that the CARC may of been designed by Aprilia engineers and I really, REALLY don't like much about the RSV motor . Pete

The Jackal is a Tonti frame bike and as such it can't take the six speeder and was never delivered with anything other than the five speed. Don't let that put you off, if ever there was an engine with which six speeds were totally redundant it's the Guzzi big block Pete

Thing is if the CW&P had that much backlash they'd destroy themselves in minutes???? From memory the backlash is supposed to be @.15mm or 6 thou or so. I don't see how the bevels could have that much play in 'em? If you think about it the pinion teeth would have to be almost out of the crownwheel to give any large amount of lash and then they'd chew the edges of the pinion and the tops of the CW in seconds? Have you had the CARC off and felt the backlash? If there is that much there has to be something seriously wrong with it! Pete

Can you expand on that? The Breva I rode had next to no driveline snatch and certainly no play in the bevelbox? The clearance between the crownwheel and pinion is measured in thou, there is no backlash. Any backlash will be within the selector dog mechanism in the gearbox so with all due respect I can't understand what they're talking about at Corsa????? To me it sounds more like a surging problem caused by poor FI setup. You haven't got some queer aftermarket pipe on it have you???? Pete

Oh dear, we seem to have got on to a pervert thread. A pederast is somebody who inteferes with small children, the common image of such people is of the shabby raincoated brigade offering what you would call 'Candies' to kiddies in parks or public conveniences. Pete

Dunno. I'll ask Wayne, he's spent a bit of time inside. I'd never actually considered it apart from the fact that it seemed appropriate Pete

Just to prove that even though I live way beyond the Black Stump we aren't immune. Last week, or maybe the week before I had a silly tart pull out on me from the centre parking outside the pub. Now Bungendore isn't exactly the cosmopolitan centre of the universe where everyone in *focused* the whole time but I was in a three tonne truck, hard to miss. When I looked over at her as she screeched to a halt I saw she was doing her email on her lap-top stuck between her tummy and the steering wheel. And I have only three points left on my licence?????? Pete

According to Mike at MPH you push it out with a couple of 30mm dowels and biff the new one in. The bearing *is* expensive but I really do think it's likely to be a supply problem FWIW it's the same bearing that Bavarian Money Wasters use in their grotesque final drive so it should be up to the task of a Guzzi if it's used to hauling Claus and Inga over the alps on a shopping trolley that makes a noise like somebody farting the Siberian national anthem underwater. The Bimmer seal os also the same dimensions apart from it's depth, it's apparently 1.5 or so mm deeper, who gives a f*ck? It'll work, but I'd be sourcing a Viton directional seal anyway. I don't think it's a big issue, it's a series of crap bearings bought by some Gloid in accounts. Fix it once and the problem will go away. If not then a few hours with a lathe will cure it. pete

Kiddy-fiddlers, paedophiles. Pete