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Crank, no spark on V11s?


Guest KeS

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Well, some ability would be helpful, too. My understanding of electical current is about at the "lights good, shock bad" level. And some would argue that for me, the shocks are actually therapeutic. :)

 

Thanks, though, it does seem that we're narrowing down focus towards ECU-related items.

 

KeS

 

Ok, good news (kind of). On my way back inside this afternoon, I stopped at the garage to kick the V11 - just because it makes me feel better. With a thought to testing the wiring path at the relays, I pulled the four grey ones and swapped them 1-2/3-4. Hit the ignition - hmm - fuel pump. Hit the starter - fat purple-white spark on the pulled plug. Stuck the plug, hit the starter - yup, sounds like a tractor again. Well, a tractor with a small-block in it. :)

 

So, I've got an unhappy relay, at least one unhappy with working the ECU. I'd pulled and replaced each of them previously, but hadn't swapped them around. I'll figure out what the slot the ECU relay went to is supposed to do (have that around somewhere), and confirm/deny that function is still working.

 

Cripes, what a drama queen this bike is!

 

KeS

 

PS - never mind what I said about the K12RS being more reliable - I kicked its tire and it's flat. I suspect the Guzzi is corrupting it.

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PS - never mind what I said about the K12RS being more reliable - I kicked its tire and it's flat. I suspect the Guzzi is corrupting it.

:glare: The Gixxer is probably sabotaging the two of them....

 

The other San Diego Guzzi dealer is Sonny Angel Motorcycles in National City.

http://www.sonnyangelmotorcycles.com/

 

Here is the link to GEI relays from Pyro Dan

http://www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm

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Guest ratchethack

So, I've got an unhappy relay, at least one unhappy with working the ECU. I'd pulled and replaced each of them previously, but hadn't swapped them around. I'll figure out what the slot the ECU relay went to is supposed to do (have that around somewhere), and confirm/deny that function is still working.

 

Cripes, what a drama queen this bike is!

 

KeS

 

PS - never mind what I said about the K12RS being more reliable - I kicked its tire and it's flat. I suspect the Guzzi is corrupting it.

Yes indeed, KeS -- You may've found an unhappy relay, but this makes it a HAPPY DAY f'er YOU! :sun:

 

Congrat's on wot already appears to be a successful diagnosis. Leave us not take to kicking our Guzzi's in fits o' misplaced frustration!

 

Goes to show that when it comes to electrical gremlins, first order o' business is to fully exercise all the BASICS up front, concentrating on ALL the CHEAP and EASY stuff first! ;)

 

Brings to mind a frustrating circumstance when the Guzzi suddenly would not start -- symptoms not much like yours, but equally frustrating. Checked, & re-checked, re-re-re- (etc.) all relays and fuses. Like you, I had not SWAPPED components yet.

 

This little pre-diagnostic excursion took no longer than 10 minutes. Posted problem with symptoms & prelim diagnostic results here. Within a few hours (as I recall) comes back a suggestion to look for fuses that LOOK OK, yet have no continuity. BINGO! ECU fuse had no continuity, yet LOOKED like new! :homer:

 

Now how to put a value on that?! :notworthy:

 

Among SO MANY OTHER THINGS ;) , that's the kinda thing makes this Forum wot it is, my friend! :luigi:

 

Leave us acknowledge, Gents, that our characterizations of our Guzzi's such as "Drama Queen" may in fact be nothing more than projections of OUR OWN (myself included) limitations -- and NOT those of the venerable and mighty Guzzi! :mg:

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"concentrating on ALL the CHEAP and EASY stuff first! wink.gif"

 

Thats 99% of what we see here..ininit?

 

Just a small handful of goofy little gremlins.

This forum is the best cure. Worth 3 tool boxes

and gas spectrometer.

Don't start no drama and there wont be no drama. :D:homer::mg:

Get the good Chinese GEI relays from Dan...not the Siemmens, not the Bosh..

the cheap Chinese ones. $15 for a handful....

See Orangeokies' rules to live by.

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:glare: The Gixxer is probably sabotaging the two of them....

 

Here is the link to GEI relays from Pyro Dan

http://www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm

 

Yeah, I guess so. My relays had already been switched to GEI for the starter, and Bosch for the others. It was a Bosch that failed, and it's clear that's what happened now - I've switched the offending relay to the headlight position, and the headlight is visibly flickering as the relay points bounce. Understandable that wasn't doing much for the ECU, I'm glad it's still working at all.

 

Maybe I'll trade all three bikes in and get a ZX-14. :moon:

 

"concentrating on ALL the CHEAP and EASY stuff first! wink.gif"

 

Thats 99% of what we see here..ininit?

 

Just a small handful of goofy little gremlins.

This forum is the best cure. Worth 3 tool boxes

and gas spectrometer.

Don't start no drama and there wont be no drama. :D:homer::mg:

Get the good Chinese GEI relays from Dan...not the Siemmens, not the Bosh..

the cheap Chinese ones. $15 for a handful....

See Orangeokies' rules to live by.

 

Yeah, I'd reviewed the relay thread, but it said the Bosch were ok. Live and learn.

 

I agree with CHEAP and EASY, and add my rule of thumb "only one thing fails at a time". I see lots of people chase multiple symptoms without correlating them to a single underlying cause. I don't know how to correlate them on the Guzzi - not enough experience, but I know enough to try and report back to y'all experts until the penny drops.

 

:bier:

 

KeS

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Yeah, I guess so. My relays had already been switched to GEI for the starter, and Bosch for the others. It was a Bosch that failed, and it's clear that's what happened now - I've switched the offending relay to the headlight position, and the headlight is visibly flickering as the relay points bounce. Understandable that wasn't doing much for the ECU, I'm glad it's still working at all.

 

Maybe I'll trade all three bikes in and get a ZX-14. :moon:

Yeah, I'd reviewed the relay thread, but it said the Bosch were ok. Live and learn.

 

I agree with CHEAP and EASY, and add my rule of thumb "only one thing fails at a time". I see lots of people chase multiple symptoms without correlating them to a single underlying cause. I don't know how to correlate them on the Guzzi - not enough experience, but I know enough to try and report back to y'all experts until the penny drops.

 

:bier:

 

KeS

The Bosch should have been fine for all but the starter relay on early V11s.

You probably just got a bad one...or you have other electrical problems :doh:

I don't know if it is true or not, but I heard that a clogged fuel filter can make the fuel pump work harder and draw more amps....so that is one possible possibility.

Another possibility is your voltage regulator is on the way out causing the relay to blow. :homer:

If you want anymore unpleasant scenarios, just ask :D

Hmmm, but then again if those scenarios were true, you would probably be blowing fuses before relays, so you will probably be fine with a new relay :grin:

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  • 14 years later...

the ZOMBIE lives!  

 

Both the thread and my bike.  

I was having no starting issues- very similar - even with symptoms of previously having running issues from time to time.  No I was getting no spark.  

first step:  got a new battery because... so often its the battery and mine was barely holding charge anyway.  new plugs too, because.. why not.  

 

second step:  relays.. they are omron so swapped them about just to see.    

 

third step (and should have been the first)  check this forum and be reminded to just 'do the work' and follow the wiring harness around cleaning and checking until I find it.

Sure enough, right under the tank a connector had jostled loose.  One with one of the wirepush locks on it->   It may just never have seated properly since last time it was removed and took years to finally move enough to simply stop working.  

Cleaned, plugged in properly.. bike fired instantly to life.  

And in true lazy man fashion I immediately stopped cleaning the rest of the connectors and said "problem solved!  no need to check anything else!"  

true story.  living on the edge!  

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1 hour ago, jetboy said:

the ZOMBIE lives!  

 

Both the thread and my bike.  

I was having no starting issues- very similar - even with symptoms of previously having running issues from time to time.  No I was getting no spark.  

first step:  got a new battery because... so often its the battery and mine was barely holding charge anyway.  new plugs too, because.. why not.  

 

second step:  relays.. they are omron so swapped them about just to see.    

 

third step (and should have been the first)  check this forum and be reminded to just 'do the work' and follow the wiring harness around cleaning and checking until I find it.

Sure enough, right under the tank a connector had jostled loose.  One with one of the wirepush locks on it->   It may just never have seated properly since last time it was removed and took years to finally move enough to simply stop working.  

Cleaned, plugged in properly.. bike fired instantly to life.  

And in true lazy man fashion I immediately stopped cleaning the rest of the connectors and said "problem solved!  no need to check anything else!"  

true story.  living on the edge!  

Which connector are we looking for here? Right or left side of the spine frame?

This'n on the right side?

IMG_2785.JPG

IMG_2784.JPG

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I can't find a three wire connector in the wiring diagrams, so not sure what that one does. But none of them are "extra." :huh:

After one of my tank-off events, I failed to re-seat a connector well enough and had to take it all down again to draw up this connector with a bar clamp and anchor it with a stout Zip-tie. Problem solved.  Good to clean and treat (DeOxit) our connectors, but be certain to re-seat them well!

IMG_2791.JPG

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10 hours ago, jetboy said:

Yep 

 

that one!  turns out its important!

 

Looks to be the Timing Sensor. So, important, indeed!

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While I'm riding, I cannot get the Sword of Damacles out of my head...

To butcher Chaucer,

Above, where seated on V11 steed,
I saw the rider blazing like fire,
There was a sharpened sword above his helmet
That hung there by the thinnest simple wire.

 

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