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I too sometimes experience back-kick when cranking even though I do have TDCWhileCranking=1. It's not a big problem so I haven't looked into it but it may be that right when the ECU thinks we're up'n'running and start using the map, there is a bit too much advance. But right now I'm more concerned about the weak starter. I'll clean the solenoid and plunger first, and see what happens.

 

Regarding air filters and open exhausts I was puzzled to see the tiny difference in mapping between all-original exhaust and full Mistrals. I think the air filter makes much more difference in mapping. I have a brand new pair of K&N pods on my kitchen table right now, we'll see what difference they will do. Frankly I bought them for the looks and sound only, if there is any performance benefit at all it's just a bonus.

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...I was puzzled to see the tiny difference in mapping between all-original exhaust and full Mistrals. ....

 

The originals are close to optimal and if you compare their noise emission to that of Mistrals they are really astonishing. At midrange revs they're even better in my eyes. The only problem with them: heavy, ugly, and without any discussion just too silent. (BTW, Lafranconi delivers to BMW - that speaks for itself. They're doing a very good job).

To keep the posting topic related: on my bike the Optimiser shows clearly that without the rubber intake nozzles in front of the airbox/filterhousing remarkable less fuel is needed to achieve the same AFR.

I'm curious what results your experiments with single pod filters will bring. I bet the results will be worse than those with standard air box.

 

Hubert

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Here is the fuel table from the orginal map.

RPM	500	1100	1500	1801	2000	2302	2601	2900	3360	3654	4045	4655	5353	6157	7082	8143	
InjDur	14	3984	11408	11296	11008	10848	10672	10464	10288	10400	10368	10064	9920	10656	12016	11712	11376
InjDur	13	3984	11360	11248	10960	10800	10640	10416	10224	10320	10304	10032	9856	10496	11696	11392	11136
InjDur	12	3984	11280	11136	10848	10688	10544	10320	10096	10144	10128	9936	9712	10128	10944	10640	10608
InjDur	11	3984	10960	10816	10624	10512	10304	10048	9824	9696	9552	9200	8544	8624	8960	8592	8480
InjDur	10	3984	10736	10592	10512	10464	10144	9888	9664	9424	9120	8528	7952	8112	8256	7280	6864
InjDur	9	3984	9360	9248	9120	9056	8816	8592	8384	8272	8096	7680	5616	5984	6256	5888	5520
InjDur	8	3984	7968	7872	7712	7632	7456	7280	7104	6768	6416	5856	5312	4960	4784	4736	4160
InjDur	7	3984	7888	7616	7488	7424	7200	7024	6896	6512	6048	5248	4576	4576	4496	4432	4016
InjDur	6	3984	7840	7200	7056	6976	6400	6112	5920	5728	5136	4976	4576	4048	3920	3616	3872
InjDur	5	5184	7072	6608	6240	6032	5168	5104	5104	4912	4640	4176	4016	3520	3632	3184	2848
InjDur	4	4880	5168	5440	4976	4816	3872	4080	4240	4000	3872	3696	3152	2896	3040	2912	2480
InjDur	3	4688	4016	4128	4128	4128	3456	3456	3344	3248	3024	2864	2832	2464	2208	2112	2080
InjDur	2	4640	3456	3312	3312	3312	2880	2800	2704	2592	2592	2256	1936	1600	1504	1504	1504
InjDur	1	4544	2880	2880	2464	2400	2192	2016	1872	1776	1440	1472	1184	1040	1040	912	752
InjDur	0	4032	2128	1648	1680	1392	1168	1200	1200	1136	1040	1040	992	992	992	752	608

Here is the current. The lower TP angles were set using an EGA so they are pretty close.

RPM	500	1150	1322	1520	1750	2011	2314	2662	3059	3521	4045	4655	5353	6157	7082	8116	
InjDur	14	4912	13088	12960	12672	12480	12336	11232	11008	11056	12056	12277	12220	12540	12056	12052	12020
InjDur	13	4912	12832	13232	13040	12912	12688	11504	11264	11136	10992	11858	11500	10516	10368	10000	9872
InjDur	12	4912	12592	13008	12912	12848	12480	11328	11104	10864	10544	10908	10797	9772	9632	9608	9088
InjDur	11	4912	11136	11488	11344	11280	10992	10848	9776	9664	9456	10464	10038	8972	8972	8972	8972
InjDur	10	8720	9632	9936	9760	9680	9456	9856	8432	8464	8400	9724	9724	8800	8800	8800	8892
InjDur	9	8720	9504	9648	9504	9424	9168	9568	8208	8464	7920	9167	9167	8320	8328	8304	8032
InjDur	8	8720	9296	9088	8928	8848	8304	8816	8224	7184	7840	7926	9075	7840	7840	7840	7824
InjDur	7	6096	8736	8736	8736	8736	7104	8128	7088	7104	6784	7648	8760	7568	7568	7568	7568
InjDur	6	5808	8320	8320	8320	7728	6752	6752	6752	7008	6608	6389	7315	6320	6320	6320	6320
InjDur	5	7152	7520	7520	7312	6016	6016	6016	6016	5712	5248	5630	6389	5520	5328	5136	5136
InjDur	4	5920	6528	6640	5664	4816	4336	4752	4528	4912	4576	5110	5129	3856	3664	4304	4096
InjDur	3	5872	5920	5520	5552	4240	4176	4048	4464	4605	5196	5827	5080	3924	3763	4067	3960
InjDur	2	5824	5456	5184	4608	3872	3600	3296	3488	4659	3996	3673	3834	3548	3404	3351	3351
InjDur	1	2560	3696	3472	3280	3008	2256	2240	2528	2885	2849	3279	3082	2920	3405	3504	3220
InjDur	0	2768	2832	2928	2400	2480	2544	2608	2672	3064	3136	3207	3297	3368	3440	3512	3046

 

And here is a percent change.

RPM	500	1150	1322	1520	1750	2011	2314	2662	3059	3521	4045	4655	5353	6157	7082	8116
InjDur	14	23.3%	14.7%	14.7%	15.1%	15.0%	15.6%	7.3%	7.0%	6.3%	16.3%	22.0%	23.2%	17.7%	0.3%	2.9%
InjDur	13	23.3%	13.0%	17.6%	19.0%	19.6%	19.2%	10.4%	10.2%	7.9%	6.7%	18.2%	16.7%	0.2%	-11.4%	-12.2%
InjDur	12	23.3%	11.6%	16.8%	19.0%	20.2%	18.4%	9.8%	10.0%	7.1%	4.1%	9.8%	11.2%	-3.5%	-12.0%	-9.7%
InjDur	11	23.3%	1.6%	6.2%	6.8%	7.3%	6.7%	8.0%	-0.5%	-0.3%	-1.0%	13.7%	17.5%	4.0%	0.1%	4.4%
InjDur	10	118.9%	-10.3%	-6.2%	-7.2%	-7.5%	-6.8%	-0.3%	-12.7%	-10.2%	-7.9%	14.0%	22.3%	8.5%	6.6%	20.9%
InjDur	9	118.9%	1.5%	4.3%	4.2%	4.1%	4.0%	11.4%	-2.1%	2.3%	-2.2%	19.4%	63.2%	39.0%	33.1%	41.0%
InjDur	8	118.9%	16.7%	15.4%	15.8%	15.9%	11.4%	21.1%	15.8%	6.1%	22.2%	35.3%	70.8%	58.1%	63.9%	65.5%
InjDur	7	53.0%	10.8%	14.7%	16.7%	17.7%	-1.3%	15.7%	2.8%	9.1%	12.2%	45.7%	91.4%	65.4%	68.3%	70.8%
InjDur	6	45.8%	6.1%	15.6%	17.9%	10.8%	5.5%	10.5%	14.1%	22.3%	28.7%	28.4%	59.9%	56.1%	61.2%	74.8%
InjDur	5	38.0%	6.3%	13.8%	17.2%	-0.3%	16.4%	17.9%	17.9%	16.3%	13.1%	34.8%	59.1%	56.8%	46.7%	61.3%
InjDur	4	21.3%	26.3%	22.1%	13.8%	0.0%	12.0%	16.5%	6.8%	22.8%	18.2%	38.3%	62.7%	33.1%	20.5%	47.8%
InjDur	3	25.3%	47.4%	33.7%	34.5%	2.7%	20.8%	17.1%	33.5%	41.8%	71.8%	103.5%	79.4%	59.3%	70.4%	92.6%
InjDur	2	25.5%	57.9%	56.5%	39.1%	16.9%	25.0%	17.7%	29.0%	79.7%	54.2%	62.8%	98.0%	121.8%	126.3%	122.8%
InjDur	1	-43.7%	28.3%	20.6%	33.1%	25.3%	2.9%	11.1%	35.0%	62.4%	97.8%	122.8%	160.3%	180.8%	227.4%	284.2%
InjDur	0	-31.3%	33.1%	77.7%	42.9%	78.2%	117.8%	117.3%	122.7%	169.7%	201.5%	208.4%	232.4%	239.5%	246.8%	367.0%

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Ok, the changes look impressive. But do you really need them? I say most of the changes you've done to the bottom line for instance or those done to the 1100 column are just useless. What makes you think you need that much fuel when you have the throttle closed? Or do cells 7 or 8 in the 1100 column really have to do with driveability or starting problems?

To keep it fair: I think those are the maps you've received from other guys, aren't they?

 

A map sent to whoever here from Cliff is probably as good as every other map spread by me or other people. What makes you think that on my bike the basics are set up the same way as on your's? How can you know the one coming from let's say Caymans comes closer or is more suitable?

 

Before you make any changes to the map or even have the idea of mixing parts of different maps (sort of a MyEcu Euro Cocktail) make one thing very sure: you really understand each part of this MyEcu map and how they interact and also you have your bike properly set up and properly running with the stock ECU. Some have wildly changed maps and like to complain that things aren't working as they expected. No problem so far, but how come they have so much questions about how the map works? This makes no sense, right?

 

If a bike pops, feels really lean or has no stable idle with the standard ECU then one shouldn't expect the MyEcu to cure these problems, the more if a standard map coming from a better running bike should to the trick. This can't work.

 

Hubert

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But do you really need them?

 

Unridable, before, Enjoyable now. Yes.

 

To keep it fair: I think those are the maps you've received from other guys, aren't they?

 

I already thanked and credited those individuals.

 

A map sent to whoever here from Cliff is probably as good as every other map spread by me or other people. What makes you think that on my bike the basics are set up the same way as on your's? How can you know the one coming from let's say Caymans comes closer or is more suitable?

 

That was my orginal point.

 

If a bike pops, feels really lean or has no stable idle with the standard ECU then one shouldn't expect the MyEcu to cure these problems, the more if a standard map coming from a better running bike should to the trick. This can't work.

 

Lubho, the OEM ECU would give me a CO reading of 0.02% at idle. A little lean. MyECU did cure those problems because I can adjust the Inj.Dur. until I got a 3.2% reading and a nice clean idle.

 

 

I seemed to have gotten under your skin somehow. Many apologies, I was just letting those intrested know that stock maps don't always work.

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Hello all. Believe it or not I've only just become aware of this thread.

 

The main problem I picked up is that of documentation. This has been a weakness of mine and even in this thread I see most of you doing a better job.

I also notice that this thread, in bringing you all together, has become a great resource to you.

 

Perhaps going forward, a dedicated forum might be a good idea. Wiki was also mentioned but I'm not familiar with this.

Your feedback is always welcome.

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Welcome, Cliff! A dedicated forum would be great. This single thread would get very long and hard to digest in the long run. And I guess we're only reaching some 10-15%, or less, of the user base right now.

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I may be wrong but as far as I know the software/firmware is the same for MyP8, My16M and My15M. The electronics are basically the same too, with varying PCB and form factor. Most people are having the opposite experience than you have, that is the MyECU software is very well behaved. I think you will be quite happy as soon as we can nail what is wrong.

 

Since you already run closed loop I'm puzzled it does not work better. Of course there is a theoretical chance something is wrong with your ECU, or the LC-1 setup. But my guess is we just have a map problem.

 

You should confirm that the output from the LC-1 analog is what you think it is. Just connect a computer with Logworks software to the digital channel and verify the the digital readout matches the Optimizer O2 reading.

 

Then, a MyECU log would be invaluable for us! If you could supply that, we could easily compare what is different between the P8 and the MyP8, as well as correlate LC-1 readings with various throttles.

 

If you can't get HyperTerminal, there are other good serial terminal emulators for free download on the Internet.

 

Meanwhile, what does the Optimizer tell you when running? Is it continuosly applying a correction factor? How much? What is the O2 voltage at idle? And at open throttle? You are in posession of wonderful tools, I predict a happy future ^_^

 

Hi raz!!

I work like a damned,after my true work i run in the night with the bike!

The closed loop work fine,no problem,after the tuning optimiser does not show too much correction,tanks for the suggestion,i try

to connect Logworks for see if i have a offset voltage applied.

I'm a donkey,i found Hyperterminal but i don't find the function for start a record.....

Maybe i find somethig....the motor anwer more fast,but i dont want to scream Eureka!

Ivan

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Ivan,

take your time and take it easy.

If you apply for help we should find a common agenda and look together what steps in what order showed what effect. The MyEcu stuff works pretty well as so often mentioned already, at least by me, but if you have all possibilities to change everything things can end up pretty weird as well. It's a complex thing.

 

I suggested to try the unit in open loop first.

The reason is, I wouldn't trust the LC1, I wouldn't trust the location of the probe and also it's not said that the exhaust is as tight as it should be.

Also, as Raz has mentioned, an eventual correction factor implied by either an unsuitable map-cell or an unreliable O2 signal can make things even more confusing.

 

Please try out the above step and report how things went. Before that you should have adjusted the TPS according to the book, also the valves, and a solid synchronisation would be helpfull as well.

Then take the map that was sent to you by Cliff and don't alter anything besides the TPS offset. This map will work. Someone else already had it on his bike, if not Cliff himself, and your bike is exactly the same. By the way, I'm sure I could download it to my V11 and also had a well usable bike (as long as the TPS characteristics are the same).

 

I can understand your feelings. When I got mine I thought everything was possible now, having insight and software and so. Then I had to learn that changing less is often more. What I've learned years before that was the funny fact that for fueling the same applies: less is more. One can easily make the fault to overly enrich the mixture where staying on the leaner side would have shown better effects.

 

Hubert

 

 

Hello Hubert!!!

 

Yes,now i work in open loop,i don't want to put too much problem over my shoulder...something happens,i change the fist cell of the table"InjAdv"......is more fast the answer.......

I have to work again to my bike....

Tank to all for the great help give to me!!

Ivan

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I have not had the chance to really ride and test my maps. But the map I originally got from Cliff was unusable. Period.

 

I used Raz's and Pasotib's maps, thanks for posting it by the way!!! You save me much trial and error. At least got me running. So serious tuning later I have a decent map, with a few oddities still, but time will solve those.

 

Welcome to the fourm Kadavere!! Your posts are help full and I LOVE the bar graph!!!! Very slick(good) As you have found out this is the place for real assistance. I wish I had more to contribute. Best of luck.

 

Hello emry!!!

 

I have you same problem,the beginner map was unusable too,i use this for apply the tips and tricks i found in this forum....help me to much,i come here after many hours and thousand of kilometers of test,now work more better but i think the way for the perfection need more time and work from me.......

Tanks

 

Ivan

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I have not had the chance to really ride and test my maps. But the map I originally got from Cliff was unusable. Period.

 

I used Raz's and Pasotib's maps, thanks for posting it by the way!!! You save me much trial and error. At least got me running. So serious tuning later I have a decent map, with a few oddities still, but time will solve those.

 

Welcome to the fourm Kadavere!! Your posts are help full and I LOVE the bar graph!!!! Very slick(good) As you have found out this is the place for real assistance. I wish I had more to contribute. Best of luck.

 

Hello emry!!!

 

I have you same problem,the beginner map was unusable too,i use this for apply the tips and tricks i found in this forum....help me to much,i come here after many hours and thousand of kilometers of test,now work more better but i think the way for the perfection need more time and work from me.......

Tanks

 

Ivan

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Welcome, Cliff, good to have you with us! :thumbsup:

 

 

How much fuel is it getting during cranking for start at 20 degrees C?

 

Is it like (figures fr standard Cliff Cali map, cold engine):

4500ms (column 1/500 RPM, 2nd TPS) + Air temp boost (+ 3,4% at 20 degrees) + Oil temp choke boost (+18,8% at 20d) + Prime while cranking 12 ms?

5502 ms if so seems quite alot. Or is it normal? Or have I misunderstood something?

 

 

# Prime gives the fuel injection time in ms while cranking

From a MyECU map, what does that mean?

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How much fuel is it getting during cranking for start at 20 degrees C?

 

Is it like (figures fr standard Cliff Cali map, cold engine):

4500ms (column 1/500 RPM, 2nd TPS) + Air temp boost (+ 3,4% at 20 degrees) + Oil temp choke boost (+18,8% at 20d) + Prime while cranking 12 ms?

5502 ms if so seems quite alot. Or is it normal? Or have I misunderstood something?

Note that the map says 4500 μs, that is 4.5 ms. I know you knew that if you thought about it, 4500 ms is 4.5 seconds! ^_^

 

As I understand it (I may be wrong), while cranking you get 12 ms, period. After engine is running on its own, you'll get the map value plus a 60% start boost that decays over 20 seconds. Plus the usual oil and air temp boosts.

 

# Prime gives the fuel injection time in ms while cranking

#Temp C   -30   -20   -10     0    10    20    25    30    40    50    60    70    80    90   100   110   125
Prime      30    30    25    20    17    12    11     9     8     5     4     5

# Crank is the %% boost of the map injection times right after start
# this boost decays to 0 over about 20s

#Temp C   -30   -20   -10     0    10    20    25    30    40    50    60    70    80    90   100   110   125
Crank      80    70    65    60    60    60    55    50    35    15    10    15    15    15    15     0

# OilT is the permanent choking boost

#Temp C   -30   -20   -10     0    10    20    25    30    40    50    60    70    80    90   100   110   125
OilT%   +64.8 +53.9 +44.5 +35.9 +29.7 +19.5 +10.2  +9.4  +5.5  +0.0

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I'm a donkey,i found Hyperterminal but i don't find the function for start a record.....

My Hyperterminal is Swedish, but the menu should be called something like "Transfer" and then you choose something like "Capture text file". Now you should be prompted to select a file name for the log. Serial parameters should be 38400,N,8,1.

 

A proper log looks like this:

=112991415FC2D14D3300000000000002300000025
 =310FB03024400040000000000040000000450
 =00E0D00AC012B03A5036C00BC01E3019D
 =112991415FC2D14D3300000000000002300000025
 =310FB03024400040000000000040000000450
 =00E0D00AC012B03A5036C00BC01E3019D
 ...

And then you can load that in ECUControl and convert it to human readable (edit: load the map in ECUControl, then click the button called ECU Diagnostics, choose your dump file, and then save it (the program unintuitively says "open file" again) with a new name):

Map (1.9,1.8) RPM=1446 Inj=4812us BaroAdj=106.3% o2Adj=100.0% o2[1] o2Target=0.00V o2=1.99V OilT=50.0C AirT=10.0C AirP=1019mb Thro=184 Bat=13.80V
Map (2.2,1.3) RPM=1545 Inj=4569us BaroAdj=106.3% o2Adj=100.0% o2[1] o2Target=0.00V o2=2.52V OilT=50.0C AirT=10.0C AirP=1019mb Thro=180 Bat=13.89V
Map (2.8,1.2) RPM=1717 Inj=4392us BaroAdj=106.3% o2Adj=100.0% o2[1] o2Target=0.00V o2=2.53V OilT=50.0C AirT=10.0C AirP=1019mb Thro=180 Bat=13.89V
Map (3.7,1.1) RPM=1931 Inj=4241us BaroAdj=106.3% o2Adj=100.0% o2[1] o2Target=0.00V o2=2.52V OilT=50.0C AirT=10.0C AirP=1019mb Thro=161 Bat=13.86V
Map (4.2,0.6) RPM=2044 Inj=3525us BaroAdj=106.3% o2Adj=100.0% o2[1] o2Target=0.00V o2=2.42V OilT=50.0C AirT=10.0C AirP=1019mb Thro=140 Bat=13.83V
...

 

One suggestion for Cliff: the ECUControl program should be able to output a log file while running, so we don't need HyperTerminal. That way we also wouldn't have to choose between controlling and logging.

Edited by raz
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