grossohc Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 If i bought a mistral x over without a hole for the lambda sensor, would it be ok to just leave the sensor tied up outside in the breeze and would i need to remap my bikes ecu. Yours in anticipation Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have no hard facts whatsoever but I'll give it a shot anyway. Just leaving it that way is very likely a bad idea as the ECU will think it's stupidly lean all the time, leading to overly rich mixture. If the sensor is detachable from the harness (I'd be surprised if it isn't) that will hopefully make the ECU aware it shouldn't try to read it. Try that and see how it works out. Welding a bung for the sensor should be quick and inexpensive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VA Sean Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I've got one with the hole -- I have sealed the hole with a brass plug and washer. No ill effects. pics from the install - here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12032 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 If i bought a mistral x over without a hole for the lambda sensor, would it be ok to just leave the sensor tied up outside in the breeze and would i need to remap my bikes ecu.Yours in anticipation Gary That O2 sensor is the second most important input on that bike! Take the crossover to an exhaust shop. They can weld a fitting into the crossover the O2 sensor can attach to. p.s. take your old crossover so they can see where it is located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VA Sean Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 That O2 sensor is the second most important input on that bike! Take the crossover to an exhaust shop. They can weld a fitting into the crossover the O2 sensor can attach to. p.s. take your old crossover so they can see where it is located. Wait... what? Really? The why did Euro bikes get them and US bikes not? I thought it was merely an emissions issue. Case in point - his 2004 Cafe Sport and my 2004 Coppa Italia -- same bikes but mine is painted like an Italian candy cane. His has the sensor and mine does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I thought the bikes with O2 sensors had different ECUs. I could be wrong though. Normally O2 sensors will trigger an ECU fault if removed without some sort of resistor pack to trick the ECU into thinking it's still there. While I would think you could delete the O2 sensor if you wanted, you would likely have to adjust the fuel map and you may run into emissions related legal issues down the road. Plus O2 sensors can be a good thing to have in some cases. If you want to delete it, do some research first. http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/ope...d_loop_efi.html Here's a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Wait... what?Really? The why did Euro bikes get them and US bikes not? I thought it was merely an emissions issue. Case in point - his 2004 Cafe Sport and my 2004 Coppa Italia -- same bikes but mine is painted like an Italian candy cane. His has the sensor and mine does not. An oxygen sensor is used in a closed loop system. After the oxygen sensor reaches a determined temperature (with the help of the buit-in heating element) it starts generating a signal to the ecu telling the ecu if the exhaust gases are rich or lean. The ecu will decide to enrich or to lean the fuel mixture. This all works to keep the mixture to as close to the 14.7 to 1 air fuel ratio for optimum power and fuel economy. Disabling the O2 sensor would be the most counter productive act you could possibly do to this bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VA Sean Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Ahh - so the answer to my question is that bikes for US delivery and European delivery were given different ECUs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I believe so. But I would not call it the most important sensor on a closed loop bike. It only listens to the O2 sensor at lower throttle positions and rpms. And while it is a great thing from an emissions standpoint, it does not adjust the fueling for max performance but instead for best emissions. But unless you have a plan for setting the bike up to correctly run without it you would be wise to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emry Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 **SPECULATION** I do not have a O2 equipped Guzzi to verify this. Most motorcycles will operate in closed loop during idle, and constant throttle (cruising) conditions only. The A/F mix is adjusted in real time with NO data stored for future use. (In other words no short or long term trims, for those of you familiar with that.) Normally when an O2 sensor is unplugged or left to hang, it will send a lean signal (low voltage) to the ECU the ECU compensates until a certain cut off point by richening the A/F mix. Once this point is reached one of two things happen. 1. The ECU ignores the O2 sensor and stays in OPEN loop & turns on the Check engine light and stores a code. 2. The ECU ignores the O2 sensor and stays in OPEN loop. When the ECU switches back to open loop due to this type of failure it will continue to run in open loop until the next time the bike is turned off and restarted. Then the process is repeated. Personally I would just remove the O2 sensor. Your fuel mileage may suffer a little depending on your riding habits though. But you didn't buy a Guzzi for good economy did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Here's some good info on FI. The first is bike specific (BMW and Ducati), the second is car oriented. http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/ope...d_loop_efi.html http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Ahh - so the answer to my question is that bikes for US delivery and European delivery were given different ECUs? Yes.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan M Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 A few thoughts. Yes, the ECM is different on bikes with an O2. O2 sensors are for fine tuning the mixture. The O2 will provide no information rich or lean when "in the breeze" so to speak. On most systems, if it is not switching (which it will not if it is not in the exhaust stream) the computer should recognize it is malfunctioning and will stay out of closed loop. It will simply default to a predetermined mixture from the other inputs, and set O2 voltage in the middle (450mv) Yes, as emry stated fuel control only occurs at idle and part throttle and at steady speed. There is no fuel control when the throttle is opened wide or engine is accelerating. As Gene said it is commonplace for exhaust shops to weld in a bunghole for an O2. I'd keep it in the mix. The main thing you are likely to notice is a change in fuel economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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