Q: Who “Needs” a Steering Damper?

[Greg Field]

Perhaps you should put a Ghostbusters sticker on your damper. Or take the damned thing off entirely 'cause your bike is set up so well that it's entirely stable. I'll take off mine if you take off yours. Let's see some substantiation: man or mouse?

[Guest ratchethack]

Perhaps you should put a Ghostbusters sticker on your damper. Or take the damned thing off entirely 'cause your bike is set up so well that it's entirely stable.

 

. . .Let's see some substantiation. . .

You're calling for substantiation from me?!?!

 

How about some substantiation for your claims of 1.) "extremely twitchy" handling and 2.) alleged resulting carnage due to your unnamed and entirely unexplained inherent instability claims for Guzzi's that myself and many members of this Forum are riding today -- and have been, safely and consistently so, for a decade, Greg.

 

While you're at it, how about substantiating your claims with 3.) an earthly explanation for this alleged inherent instability, and 4.) particularly the, "some are GOOD, some are BAD" part -- other than your vague link by some extremely tenuous and (again) unexplained means to an entirely different full-house police Eldo built 30 years before, for which you ALSO have offered no explanation for inherent instability.

 

Unless you're going with Madame Grosse Gatore Bayou's Voodoo explanation of demon possession, which would at least be a more solidly substantitated explanation for what you've alleged than anything you've come up with yet??

 

 

The Extremely Twitchy

Red Frame Demon

I'll take off mine if you take off yours. Let's see some substantiation: man or mouse?

OMG. This takes me back to grade school shenannigans with the girl down the block when her parents were away.

 

Is this a Double Dog Dare? And what if I Triple Dog Dared you to ride without a helmet with a promise to do the same? How old are you, Greg?

[Greg Field]

Q.E.D.

[belfastguzzi]

Unless you're going with Madame Grosse Gatore Bayou's Voodoo explanation of demon possession, which is at least a more solidly substanted explanation...

 

Ah, at last, an explanation for the little chap who sits on the handlebars of my red-frame Scura.

 

[GuzziMoto]

Gussimoto: Ever tried an Aprilia SXV? It seems to be the type of bike you would love . . .

I came close to buying one but did not. Turned out to be a good thing as the early 550's had a bad habit of blowing up. They have supposedly cured that issue and I may have one yet.

[docc]

Ah, at last, an explanation for the little chap who sits on the handlebars of my red-frame Scura.

 

 

Oh, that is scary! But the little horn(y) demon on my Sport is always looking back at me!

 

Oh,and this "take your damper off, get to the most susceptible speed and induce a wobble" is the equivalent of checking your weapon by pointing it at your foot and pulling the trigger.

 

Survival of the fittest?

[Guest ratchethack]

Oh,and this "take your damper off, get to the most susceptible speed and induce a wobble" is the equivalent of checking your weapon by pointing it at your foot and pulling the trigger.

Um, not hardly, Docc. It only appears risky to the uninitiated. I reckon you might be favorably surprised if you actually did it. If you're sincerely interested in learning more about handling (many hereabouts clearly aren't, because they evidently already know it all ), by doing this as Milich suggests (as I have done countless times since many years ago and ever since), you can actually gain knowledge of great value without risk of crashing.

 

 

"A man's got to know his limitations." -- East Clintwood

 

. . .And so it goes with the limitations of his machine.

 

There's really very little risk if you understand the fundamental inherent self-righting dynamics of moto's.

 

If the idea is simply too scary for you, try it first on a bicycle over soft ground. Or better yet, if you've got one or have access to one, try it on an offroad moto. The principles are exactly the same. Try it in incremental steps, starting with a little input whack on the bars, and increase speed and amplitude each time, as your confidence builds. Having understood how it works and gaining a feel for it, then you can try it on the Guzzi, same way. C'mon, give it a shot.

 

Otherwise, unless you're willing to submit to the Voodoo exorcism spells of Madame Grosse Gatore Bayou, or you're gonna call the Ghostbusters, how else will you know if your red frame is possessed? Why, without doing the test, I reckon you're simply playing Russian roulette on the road 24/7/365, where the Extremely Twitchy Red Frame Demon holds the revolver to your temple (so to speak ) -- only if you've got a "BAD one", of course, and how are you ever gonna know without calling him out?! Why, he's likely to attack at a time and place of HIS choosing -- not yours.

 

As we've been informed, the stakes of risking a confrontation on the Extremely Twitchy Demon's terms ain't trivial, with alleged carnage and many victims from a decade ago (still pending substantiation). . . Evidently, authors, moto journo's, and (no doubt) teams of lawyers alike have all been on pins and needles on that one, ever since. . .

 

 

The Extremely Twitchy Red Frame Demon

in another of his many guises

[Greg Field]

Who now can doubt that Ratch has lost his mind?

[dlaing]

Dropping the front end increases the rake and puts slightly more weight on the front, unfortuneatly it also decreases trail which is a bad thing. As I recall Hacks red frame bike also has the front end dropped also decreasing the trail (and stability). You can't blame the frame for that.

 

You have that backwards: Dropping the front end DECREASES the rake.

 

The stability increase from weight shift trumps the loss in stability due to change in trail.

Have you tried lowering the front end? Did you find the bike became less stable? I am sure there are many here who can concur that lowering makes the bike more stable.

[dlaing]

There's really very little risk if you understand the fundamental inherent self-righting dynamics of moto's.

WTF?!?

“"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?”

-Alice in UUonderland

[Guest ratchethack]

WTF?!?

“"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?”

-Alice in UUonderland

Dave. You've been mucking about in your favorite swimming hole down in the ol' Swamp-o'-Confusion again, haven't you?

 

For someone who has repeatedly (and again recently) reported here of unexpectedly flying through the air on his Guzzi for "well over one second" (that's something on the order of 200 feet at your claimed Veglia 120 mph) on an obviously entirely unfamiliar road, may I suggest that it might be very wise for you to gain an understanding (and very soon) of the physical principles that kept you from becoming an extended grease smear on the tarmac immediately following that stunt, especially if you're inclined to repeat anything like this Kneivelish behavior.

 

Yes, motorcycles have several powerful fundamental self-righting forces at work that tend to resist counteracting outside forces that would knock them down. Without these inherent stabilizing forces, motorcycles would be impossible to ride.

 

Terms like gyroscopic motion and caster, among others previously demonstrated to be incomprehensible to you from the blog entries in Wikipedia may be too advanced to be of any value here without further contributing to your confusion. You may have an easier time with a visual demonstration (of which there are countless similar examples):

 

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S00MnjbKVKSR8B...id=000110188719

 

Hope this helps. Really.

[Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.)]

well... I dismountled my old Bitubo and quite enjoyed the show that Guzzi did in slow turns...

after some hundred kms ridden fast on not so good road... I gotta buy a new one 3 tankslaps (you know the move when your clip-ons hits the tank <_ on horizonts in less than one hour...>

 

sorry, without the damper it is funny, but can be dangerous. Specially when you try to catch up with some Ducatis 999 and etc

 

/I have wilbers front springs and also dropped the bike a bit in the yokes.

[docc]

I did, as you may recall, drain all the oil from my leaky Bitubo.( It was just so *untidy*, you know. ) Much the same as taking it off, I suppose.

 

She didn't give me any shakes, but I didn't like the low speed (parking lot) feel. Too abrupt.

 

The only time I've gotten the headshake was when my front tire was really played up. again, I'd wind in about three turns on the Bitubo and order a tire.

 

Currently, there is a very beautiful Japanese Shindy on the Sport. It is lovely and "appears" to work quite well. The adjusting clicks are very responsive. I'm waiting for final fitment to report in full (to the best of my limited abilities).

 

While the Sport did, once, throw me off with a fit of mysterious suspensionismism, I don't believe she's possessed, quite.

 

Afflicted, perhaps. Even, bent (in a psych sense). She reminds me of a strange, dangerous vampiresque girl I once dated.

 

You can call the Ghostbusters, I'm gonna see if the Vampirette would like to go for a ride . . .

[emry]

Now here's something new and completely different.^

 

Emry, please correct me if I'm misreading this somehow.

 

Are you saying that it's dangerous to adjust a steering damper while underway, and that mfgr's of both moto's and steering dampers haven't specifically designed them to be used exactly this way??

 

Please advise.

 

If this is actually what you intended to post, I've just gotta know where this comes from -- What, exactly, ever gave you this idea?

 

Yes. If you think even one manufactor (moto's or dampers) thinks that taking your hands off of the bars (even just one) is an acceptable idea (at speed) you are out of your head. But since you have untold amount of time to prowl and call supply me with a reference; name, number and company of such.

 

By the way, if you check with your local legal advisor they may indicate that is actually law breaking to ride "while not in complete control".

[GuzziMoto]

You have that backwards: Dropping the front end DECREASES the rake.

 

The stability increase from weight shift trumps the loss in stability due to change in trail.

Have you tried lowering the front end? Did you find the bike became less stable? I am sure there are many here who can concur that lowering makes the bike more stable.

That depends on your point of veiw as to which is which. To some (racers) increased rake means a steeper head angle. To other (Harley riders) increased rake may mean less steering angle. Either way, yes I have extesively played with that on a number of bikes. I have been racing bikes since '89 and have been pretty successful at it. Steepening the steering head angle makes the bike steer quicker and lighter (the "lighter" part is due to the decrease in trail). The trade off is a decrease in the self centering tendency of the front end that trail is responsible for. This results in a decrease in stability. The weight shift is a much smaller effect then the decrease in trail. In every cae I have experienced, dropping the front end to increase the steering angle (steeper rake) has resulted in a less stable bike. If the bike has a surplus of trail then the effect will be small, but it is almost always going in the direction of quicker steering/less stable. I say "almost always" only because nothing in this field is an absolute. Have you read about the guy who invented counter rotating brake discs? They allowed the bike to run stupidly steep steering head angles (like 10 degrees) with no stability issues. There is a lot more to stability then steering head angle. In fact, my old Buell had something like 23 degrees of rake and no steering damper and it had zero stability issues, even when raced. Of course, I was not racing with WERA (they require bikes to have steering dampers whether they need them or not), I don't usually race with WERA. Any, that is besides the point.

Steeping steering head angles usually result in quicker, lighter steering with a little less stability. When you do not have a steering damper it is easier to tell the difference. A steering damper will likely mask any decrease in stability due to a decrease in trail, allowing you to "feel" that it more stable due to the very slight increase in front end weight.