mznyc Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 Guys, before you ruin your bikes completely you should get used to the fact that proper shifting per se has nothing to do with a working or not working clutch. Constantly airing or UV exposition of the the box' internals won't make anything better. These parts like the darkness - that's something I was told nearly 20 years ago and this was one of the best advice I ever got. If your gearbox is broken then it's time to get into it, never before that or just out of curiosity. Instead make sure the linkage has enough play, make sure the levers are parallel to each other, make sure they are centered (same movement to the left and right) and finally make sure they're lubed. A stuck gearbox when hot in most cases is just a matter of sticky leverage, not of air in the clutch line or the wrong colour/manufacturer of the oil and other ideas like that. The six-speed box is a very good one. It's light, quick shifting and totally reliable. Even when on some bikes "the spring" (and it's boss) are worth some attention hubert Thanks Hubert for input but aware of all these things.Dont plan on ruining the bike,(but hey anythings possible)fairly cautious,and open to advice of those such as yourself here, that know a LOT more about this bike than I.But that doesn't mean I won't take on a challenge ,or haven't done extensive reading,and research into the subject.Post #1 explains that Ive addressed some of your suggestions already.The pre-selector assembly is not rocket science,just something I'm missing or slightly out of tolerance. Hmm,quick shifting,reliable?,Please give me a dollar for everyone who's posted they've had shifting trouble on the forum and I'd be a hundredaire.Waay more than there should be for such an expensive beast. I have two options here.Fix it,or sell it(as the PO did).I choose #1.As Ratchethack once described me,if nothing ,I'm determined when I set out to do something.A few words of discouragement won't sway my stubbornness Keep the constructive or destructive ,(no matter),suggestions coming,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 ...take the "fearbox" to pieces and inspect it...the box is problematic....could cost you dearly if unlucky...I am not driving any V11 sport without leathers.I have the scars to prove it! ...The six-speed box is a very good one. It's light, quick shifting and totaly reliable... The truth will reside somewhere in between... KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted November 19, 2010 Author Share Posted November 19, 2010 The truth will reside somewhere in between... KB Ya my thoughts exactly. "Michael, Removing one of the pins allows shift forks a bit of a different operating range. This can help a clearance related problem. Not that it will on yours I was just sharing our past experience. Micha " Keith had you ever about removing the rolled locating pin as a possible help to this problem? Since you and BG have spent some much time working on and researching this problem ,I figured if anyone knew about of it would be you or BelGuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 ...had you ever about removing the rolled locating pin as a possible help to this problem?... Hi Michael. No I didn't try w/o the pin. My gearbox works OK as is. That pin limits extent of pawl arm movement. I saw a photo (here, I think) of an eccentric pin fitted in place of this rolled one, which would give adjustment here. That & other variations we've seen suggest to me that MG have experimented with this mechanism, presumably looking for fixes to issues with function or reliability. Not sure if I remember you right, but did you say earlier you left adjuster screw w/o locknut? I should lock screw each time you adjust. It's an eccentric pin & 360degrees (1 Turn) is full range of adjustment. It's a long time since I've been inside that plate & would have to have another look to offer any more useful help to you. Sorry. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnR Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 I dont think that leaving the domed (acorn) nut off will make any difference as the adjuster is locked with the other nut against the threaded hole on the casing. Is it possible that the eccentric adjuster for the selector shaft has been wound in too far either binding on the lower selector or on the selector shaft. Without looking at the mechanism I would assume that there would only be half a turn of adjustment (quarter os a turn each way from centred position) and if adjusting you would need to know and have marked the central position to make the minute adjustments accurately. Personaly I would take the selector plate off and centre the adjuster visually and to ensure the selector was wound out enough so that it was not binding but I would think you could find the upper and lower point of the adjuster by putting pressure on the foot lever whilst turning the eccentric adjuster through 180'.You will then need to make very small adjustments until it is set to the correct position. It will also be important to check that the external linkage is positioned correctly on the selector shaft as this could affect the range of rotation of the shaft. I wish you luck as it is going to take time and patience to get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted November 20, 2010 Author Share Posted November 20, 2010 Not sure if I remember you right, but did you say earlier you left adjuster screw w/o locknut? I should lock screw each time you adjust. KB Hi Keith,as I was focusing on that eccentric adjuster,I was leaving the locknut off,but since have re-installed after a few more stabs at adjustments to no avail. At this point,I'm waiting for cover springs from MI,replace all three and re-assemble the whole assembly.Hoping that something was slightly miss-aligned/out of tolerance, causing excessive play.We'll see,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnR Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Looking at photos in an earlier thread the photos show that you have later version selector gears in an earlier version cover, I wonder if this has anything to do with your problems as the later covers had a 2nd eccentric adjuster for the pawl arm the earlier parts diagram also indicates two versions of the pawl arm (ratchet). I'm thinking that you may have a mix and match selector with compatability/tolerance issues. Have you tried getting hold of a complete replacement selector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted November 20, 2010 Author Share Posted November 20, 2010 Looking at photos in an earlier thread the photos show that you have later version selector gears in an earlier version cover, I wonder if this has anything to do with your problems as the later covers had a 2nd eccentric adjuster for the pawl arm the earlier parts diagram also indicates two versions of the pawl arm (ratchet). I'm thinking that you may have a mix and match selector with compatability/tolerance issues. Have you tried getting hold of a complete replacement selector? Hi Haydn,Thanks for the info.Nobody had noticed(myself included) or mentioned the possible mismatch cover/assembly. Interesting and good info.I have inquired to Reboot and been looking out on Ebay but most people who have a parts bike generally want to sell engine and on trans as one unit.Anyone have a spare cover assembly lying around? Should probably ask MI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Guys, before you ruin your bikes completely you should get used to the fact that proper shifting per se has nothing to do with a working or not working clutch. Constantly airing or UV exposition of the the box' internals won't make anything better. These parts like the darkness - that's something I was told nearly 20 years ago and this was one of the best advice I ever got. If your gearbox is broken then it's time to get into it, never before that or just out of curiosity. Instead make sure the linkage has enough play, make sure the levers are parallel to each other, make sure they are centered (same movement to the left and right) and finally make sure they're lubed. A stuck gearbox when hot in most cases is just a matter of sticky leverage, not of air in the clutch line or the wrong colour/manufacturer of the oil and other ideas like that. The six-speed box is a very good one. It's light, quick shifting and totaly reliable. Even when on some bikes "the spring" (and it's boss) are worth some attention hubert I think it is clear to anyone, that these boxes are not totally reliable, on the contrary. It is a very nice working gearbox, when it works, but it often does not. If it had been that great, or that reliable, Moto Guzzi would certainly have used it for more than one model. The previous gearbox is still in use!! The V11 box has been dumped. So even Moto Guzzi themselves realize that the box is a dodo. As for a malfunctioning clutch, of course it affects the box! If the clutch plates do not separate completely, then there will still be some drive(torque)on the input shaft, and shifting will be affected, negatively. I think most of us would have experienced this ,either in a car or on a bike. This is common knowledge. You can, of course do perfect shifts without using the clutch, but that requires a sympathetic throttle and a knack for what is going on. These clutchless shifts work best with no load, but are almost impossible to perform if you don't hit the right conditions of speed, revs and load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MArkS Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Are the false neutrals on downshift only, or in both directions? I had a problem with downshift false neutrals in which it would shift past the desired gear and end up in a neutral between it & the next lower gear.Adjusting the eccentric in small increments pretty much cured it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 Are the false neutrals on downshift only, or in both directions? I had a problem with downshift false neutrals in which it would shift past the desired gear and end up in a neutral between it & the next lower gear.Adjusting the eccentric in small increments pretty much cured it. Hi Mark, It's missing in both directions.In post #1(I know it's lengthy,but wanted to give as much info as possible) I list what Ive done already.Multiple stabs at the eccentric adjuster. "What Ive done so far to try to fix this, Replaced fluid front and rear with Shockproof Inspected spring,not broken Lubed shift linkage Adjusted eccentric adjuster,every subsequent ride that showed symptoms I made small adjustments to this on the road and it helped but problems always reoccurred on subsequent rides." Springs are in from MI but wont be home for a couple of weeks.Hopefully we wont be buried under snow by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan-O Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Hello V11 Forum, I run an old T3 Moto Guzzi which is in renovation now, this is my first post, thanks for having me here. I have been reading the posts on the V11 six speed problem with much interest, as I plan this motorcycle to be my next. I would like to participate in finding a solution for this problem. I have found that walk-through tutorials are hard to find, I hope to read one soon. I would like to ask a few tech questions and suggest a thing or two in the interest of research. Could the false neutral problem be related to "carry on" of the shift drum, where it rotates beyond where it should stop by some system of detent? I ask this question to try to address why this often happens more when the transmission is hot. Maybe thinner oil allows the drum to carry further because the oil is less viscous, adding less braking effect. I assume that, being a six speed, the shift drum is crowded with shift fork program grooves and less rotation causes more shift fork movement. I would think that this would give the transmission a quicker action. But if this is true, I could see how detent action would be more critical in the positioning of the shift forks. I would think that shimming of the drum would be crucial as well. If detent action to accurately position the shift drum is a contributing factor, could the detents be made to act more positively? Thanks in advance for putting up with noob questions. If I don't buy a V11 Lemans, I'll remain a noob but I'm willing to give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Hi, Dan-O! Welcome! Hope you find your V11. Not long ago another "Dan" had a green Sport listed from up in Crossville. Worth a look. The spine frame 6-speeder has no shift drum, but a shift "plate" more similar to some BMW transmissions. This thread walks through about all the variables for getting one moving smoothly. I'm starting to think MZNYC's trouble is in the "dogs." Not an owner optional correction as special tools are required. Look for my pm. I'm like 45 minutes from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuevototem Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Hi to all, Today I tried to move the eccentric removing the 2 nuts, but the eccentric is really hard! Is normal? do I have to do something else? Best regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Once the top "acorn" nut is removed, the 19mm lock nut is released. Note the postition of the screw slot as that is the actual adjustment. I used a 3/8" drive "crow's foot" for the lock nut. This is an open end 19mm wrench head that can be turned by a ratchet extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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