luhbo Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 ... Still shifting badly. [...] Or a dog tranny from factory. Unlikely and will guess the clutch and diff fluid will do the trick. Shifting goes smoothest without any clutch at all, upshift at least. So why should a working clutch be the reason for your problem? What you could do is remove the gearbox' sidecover and check whether the shifting forks/pinions move freely. From friends I've heard of 'dog tranny from factory', so that's not too unlikely. In good ones the internals begin to move as soon as you tilt the box a little bit. Having the side cover down you can check this one as well, whether the shifting wheels (and the mechanism behind them)turn smoothly or not. Stop fiddling with the clutch, you've lost one year already. Hubert edit: if you believe it's Redline that keeps the world spinning, you could fill that drained from the gearbox into your rear drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Update !!! Fitted a Moto-bits kit to bike this week as Ive never found the positions to be perfect for me.Took her out for a ride and it's much better.Still hit a few FN's but think tweaking the levers slightly may get it closer.It was a perfect fall day here,mid sixties so didnt get it hot as bad shifting was worse when hot when problem started.But I think the combination of new friction plates,better feeling ,correctly positioned rear-sets and being more deliberate with shifts(pull clutch in,shift,wait half a beat and let clutch out)more so with the 2-plater,seems to feel a lot better. I'm going to risk upsetting the Guzzi gods and christen it fixed! Thanks to all who helped and offered encouragement. I'll write up a summery soon with pics for anyone wanted to change from a single to twin plate set-up it may help them from some of the aggravation of lost time looking and waiting for correct parts I experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Glad to hear she is moving again. You've done a yeoman's job on it and I'm sure you'll appreciate many, many good miles from here on out (touches wood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted September 29, 2012 Author Share Posted September 29, 2012 Thanks Jason, You and Pete definitely helped a lot and appreciate it.Not all crusty ole Guzzi owners are as patient or positive as you guys.(But most are) I'll be taking her out again in a day or two after making some linkage adjustments yesterday,so hope to have a report at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Uh-Oh,Took her out yesterday and after she warmed up she started missing shifts again.Mostly upshifts,sooo,... Im gonna pull off cover again and see if anything looks amiss that I may have missed on previous attempts.If it is the dogs as has been suggested here before, can I see them with the cover off.Not sure what they'll look like. If I had a known good box on hand I would slap that pre-selector cover on mine to see if it's that.If not,install the box.If I cant find a used one the next few months I'll have to send it off to Harper's as they're the only known reputable shop that I could find that rebuild 6-speeds. Wouldnt surprise me if Guzzi threw in the of the problematic pre-02 box's in mine, as it may have been what was lying around the factory that week. Eh another Grappah Tony?!!! I think Ive checked everything outside of the box. Feel free to make any suggestions,... Also it's been running great before and after this project,but after an hr or so ride and a stop at a friends for an hr it was trying to die below 5k.Maybe a hose came loose.Gonna stay away from it for a few days as I think that would be best for her and me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Update Got a used box from Mark at Moto Guzzi Classics.Says it was off a crashed front end , low mileage 03.Since he's in Ca, is this any of ours? Selector wheels side by side look the same.Old box has Redline,new one, something else. My theory is the box or the pre-selector is bad.The easiest thing to do is put the new cover on the existing box and see what happens.If it doesnt help,I'll drop the new box in and cross my fingers,........ To be continued,........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hmm,Got the "New" pre-selector cover on and a short test ride.No problems and I tried to short-shift it but it wouldn't hit a false neutral.I'll get it out tomorrow for a longer ride as it'll be warmer and I'll get her nice and hot as it seems the problem appears when that happens. If it is the cover,either something went out of spec or adjustment.It started to miss shifts before I opened it and had been a mostly reliable shifter for several seasons,so I'll eliminate anything I might have done when I pulled the cover. The PO replaced the pawl spring but it shifted pretty well when I acquired it so I'll assume it wasn't anything he did. Maybe shoddy tolerances from the factory? May explain a lot of bad shifters here in the Tech form who didn't have broken springs,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Well a beautiful day here in the North East,low 60's and sunny and fall colors peaking. Gave her a good thrashing,stop'n'go traffic in a local village,a little construction slow down and 70 mph twisties for several hrs and,....NO MISSED SHIFTS!!!!. Problem had always shown itself when warmed up,and she was definitely up to temp. So the problem may have been the pre-selector assembly all along.The new one appeared to be the same and alignment of marks identical,but something must have been wrong in there. I'll report back after a few more long rides,hopefully I can get a couple in as our season is coming to an end,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Michael, great news you did not have to change the box itself! Enjoy this riding season: just in time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thanks Docc,I'll take losing most of the year if this works.She's been down for the better part of two and a half years. I got so comfortable after a few hours riding yesterday I came in hot in a corner and gave a downshift too much and got a good head shake,wah hoo,but she hit the gear....Good feeling running her like she should be run and not squirming waiting for a false neutral on every approach. Leaving for 2 weeks Sun or Monday for work so hope to get a ride in before I go as after that it's a crap shoot up here,... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Another 5-6 hr ride and problem free,1 missed shift but relate that to rider laziness.Changed plugs,gaped valves while motor was out and bike is running awesome with a little burble/popping off throttle.Still have as yet to sync TB and set TPS which should correct that.About 20 miles from home she started dieing below 4 K.Pulled over and found a loose TB boot.There was a weird sound ,like a squeaky belt,as soon as I restored boot noise went away and bike ran fine again.What would cause this noise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motowarren Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Problem had always shown itself when warmed up,and she was definitely up to temp. So the problem may have been the pre-selector assembly all along.The new one appeared to be the same and alignment of marks identical,but something must have been wrong in there. Your problems shifting sounds very similar to mine and after another ride the other day it seems more specifically to be downshifting to 4th and sometimes 3rd. I think it's something in the selector mechanism. What wears out there? What to look for when I take the plate off. I've checked everything else and nothing is binding, the clutch hydraulics are working good and the clutch is not slipping or dragging. I don't have a spare preselector assy to try. Is this something that a better lubricant like Red Line can fix? I was surprized to find out mine had a single plate clutch. I thought all the V11 sports were dual disc. Which one is better and why. Alot of questions I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Problem had always shown itself when warmed up,and she was definitely up to temp. So the problem may have been the pre-selector assembly all along.The new one appeared to be the same and alignment of marks identical,but something must have been wrong in there. Your problems shifting sounds very similar to mine and after another ride the other day it seems more specifically to be downshifting to 4th and sometimes 3rd. I think it's something in the selector mechanism. What wears out there? What to look for when I take the plate off. I've checked everything else and nothing is binding, the clutch hydraulics are working good and the clutch is not slipping or dragging. I don't have a spare preselector assy to try. Is this something that a better lubricant like Red Line can fix? I was surprized to find out mine had a single plate clutch. I thought all the V11 sports were dual disc. Which one is better and why. Alot of questions I know Warren If I had to apologize for asking questions,I'd be a apologizing 24/7 All of the things you mentioned I tried and still had the same results,if you havent yet,I know it's lengthly,but go back and read this thread.I dont know what went wrong in the pre-selector assembly.It looks fine and looks the same as the "new" one.I'm going to send it to a Guzzi trany specialist ,Charlie Cole and get his thoughts.He generally only works on 5-speeds,but Im gonna ask if he sees anything out of place.It's very simple,just a couple wheels,3 springs,a pawl arm and a couple other components.The parts individually are expensive,and finding just a cover assembly alone is nearly impossible.Most people parting a bike sell the cover with the box,which is what I did.I would remove it and take a look and see if anything looks out of place.I wish I could tell you what was wrong in the old cover,all I know is that with all the changes I did,only putting on a different cover corrected the problem.If you do get in there start a thread and the crazies will offer their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 PS,they are all twin plates except for the Scura,Rosso M,and Tenni.They are lighter and spin quicker and came from the racing bikes.Not the same as the race bikes but a similar but more flawed design.The Scura's seem to be the most problematic.I now have a 2-plate in there and feel little to no difference in how the bike feels and responds,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Another 5-6 hr ride and problem free,1 missed shift but relate that to rider laziness.Changed plugs,gaped valves while motor was out and bike is running awesome with a little burble/popping off throttle.Still have as yet to sync TB and set TPS which should correct that.About 20 miles from home she started dieing below 4 K.Pulled over and found a loose TB boot.There was a weird sound ,like a squeaky belt,as soon as I restored boot noise went away and bike ran fine again.What would cause this noise? Hi Michael, Great to hear that you finally got your bike back together and fixed that shifting issue! I remember checking out your shifter plate assembly and I certainly didn't see anything wrong with it. It will be interesting to see what Charlie Cole thinks. The squeaky noise that you heard was probably air being sucked through a small gap between your loose TB and the rubber boot. I'd guess that you would hear it most while engine braking. That Scura definitely owes you a bunch of trouble free miles now. We'll have to hook up for a ride some time next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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