What did you do to your V11 today?

[docc]

Thanks so much for reposting the image, Belair63!  I always enjoy the pictures you post!

[80CX100]

2 hours ago, NicoNZ said:

Managed to source a TI race kit someone had pulled off their bike before selling. I couldn't wait so tried installing the pipes as soon as they arrived. A little disappointed in the pipes as they have a few marks and a couple of small dings. Anyhow the foot peg hangers would not bolt up due to different hole distance dimensions. On searching the web I noticed a small adaptor bracket is necessary. Contacted the seller. "oh yes I remember those". Bugger! He is going to have look for them.

Anyhow I settled on just changing out the ECU. Out goes the 15RC and in goes the 15M. I had already turned the lambda off previously. My god the difference is incredible. My OEM pipes have been cored so it runs fantastic. Not one cough at any rpm anywhere. More responsive and the motor actually seems to sound different and definitely has a different character.

I like it a lot....now to figure out wat to do with the TI cans to tidy them up. Thinking about dismantling and taking them to a decent panel beater then giving them a good polish.

Nico Tks very much for the feedback on the Ti ECU, it sounds like a very positive effect on the running of your bike.

     The question I have for you or anybody else that may know the answer;

     I have a few different maps on hand saved on my computers, I'm sure one of them is a copy of the OEM Ti racing ECU map, if I load that map onto my 15M ECU in my Lemans, should I expect to see the same positive results that Nico has?

      Tia

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, 80CX100 said:

Nico Tks very much for the feedback on the Ti ECU, it sounds like a very positive effect on the running of your bike.

     The question I have for you or anybody else that may know the answer;

     I have a few different maps on hand saved on my computers, I'm sure one of them is a copy of the OEM Ti racing ECU map, if I load that map onto my 15M ECU in my Lemans, should I expect to see the same positive results that Nico has?

      Tia

As a starting point I just checked the fuel, offset and ignition maps of the Ti map against the V11 Sport map and the only difference between a "Titanium" map and a std v11 Sport map is ignition advance  at the top end at larger throttle openings. So from 36.8 to 84.8 (full throttle)  there is between 3 and 5 degrees extra ignition advance on the Ti map. That's it. It was a similar thing with Ducati, I would never pay the extra money for the Ducati "special" ecus and just buy the pipes without the ecu as it was never worth the extra silly money they charged for them and had no practical effect on engine performance with a Ducati. Those ecu's just added 3% fuel everywhere and you paid around 1500 dollars for them. 

Ciao

[Tomchri]

Got a new Ti  ECU with my cans,, decent price, but I wasn't impressed. I like spares 

Cheers Tom.

[footgoose]

6 hours ago, NicoNZ said:

Managed to source a TI race kit someone had pulled off their bike before selling. I couldn't wait so tried installing the pipes as soon as they arrived. A little disappointed in the pipes as they have a few marks and a couple of small dings. Anyhow the foot peg hangers would not bolt up due to different hole distance dimensions. On searching the web I noticed a small adaptor bracket is necessary. Contacted the seller. "oh yes I remember those". Bugger! He is going to have look for them.

Anyhow I settled on just changing out the ECU. Out goes the 15RC and in goes the 15M. I had already turned the lambda off previously. My god the difference is incredible. My OEM pipes have been cored so it runs fantastic. Not one cough at any rpm anywhere. More responsive and the motor actually seems to sound different and definitely has a different character.

I like it a lot....now to figure out wat to do with the TI cans to tidy them up. Thinking about dismantling and taking them to a decent panel beater then giving them a good polish.

If you don't find those bracket adapters, they'll be easy to make. Pictured is stock. The offset holes are 23mm center-center with an overall height of 46.80 (no need for accuracy with the height) on a flat steel plate (these are 6.25 thick but anything close will work) Just eyeball the general shape and length. They barely show when installed. The nut you see is welded on but it's not necessary - easy to get to. All holes are the same size as the hanger.

The cans are an easy job too. Drill them out, rub out the dings, reassemble. I used alm rivets because I figured I'd dent them again - which I did!. Polish? I didn't have any luck with that, so I used fine scotchbright as a buffer in the same direction of the grain to try to duplicate the orig brushed finish. There are a couple of forum threads on Ti can repair.

 

[footgoose]

I see I left out one other measurement - the wide set holes. That's the same as your frame mount AND the oem 'low' bracket. I can give more detail if you go that rout and need it.

[NicoNZ]

1 hour ago, footgoose said:

I see I left out one other measurement - the wide set holes. That's the same as your frame mount AND the oem 'low' bracket. I can give more detail if you go that rout and need it.

Fantastic! Thanks Footgoose. I can make those up easily. All I needed was the 23mm distance. The rest I could get from both brackets. Thanks a bunch!

[NicoNZ]

4 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

As a starting point I just checked the fuel, offset and ignition maps of the Ti map against the V11 Sport map and the only difference between a "Titanium" map and a std v11 Sport map is ignition advance  at the top end at larger throttle openings. So from 36.8 to 84.8 (full throttle)  there is between 3 and 5 degrees extra ignition advance on the Ti map. That's it. It was a similar thing with Ducati, I would never pay the extra money for the Ducati "special" ecus and just buy the pipes without the ecu as it was never worth the extra silly money they charged for them and had no practical effect on engine performance with a Ducati. Those ecu's just added 3% fuel everywhere and you paid around 1500 dollars for them. 

Ciao

Hi Phil,

I here what you are saying. How does that explain the elimination of the cough or stumble on a constant throttle at around 2500 - 3000 RPM? That would be nowhere near the throttle openings you have referenced. Also the bike is a lot more responsive across the rev range. Its quite noticeable. 

I did have the RC ECU with the Lambda turned off through Tuner Pro. The only other contributing factor could be that a previous owner paid a guy a lot of money to @#$$#! around with the ECU to try and remove the stumble to no avail. Maybe he caused some of the poor running with other changes but as I understand it most standard maps cause the constant throttle stumble.

I tell you its night and day. Couldn't believe it. Biggest grin inside a helmet for a long time.....

[NicoNZ]

1 hour ago, footgoose said:

 

The cans are an easy job too. Drill them out, rub out the dings, reassemble. I used alm rivets because I figured I'd dent them again - which I did!. Polish? I didn't have any luck with that, so I used fine scotchbright as a buffer in the same direction of the grain to try to duplicate the orig brushed finish. There are a couple of forum threads on Ti can repair.

 

 

When you say "rub" out the dings, what do you mean by that? I assume its using hand pressure just rub them out from the inside?

Thanks, will have to search for the other threads.

Nick

[footgoose]

20 minutes ago, NicoNZ said:

When you say "rub" out the dings, what do you mean by that? I assume its using hand pressure just rub them out from the inside?

Thanks, will have to search for the other threads.

Nick

So... I used a hammer and then I found this thread. A better idea.....

 

I will post my thread addressing the same, if I can find it.

[Lucky Phil]

57 minutes ago, NicoNZ said:

Hi Phil,

I here what you are saying. How does that explain the elimination of the cough or stumble on a constant throttle at around 2500 - 3000 RPM? That would be nowhere near the throttle openings you have referenced. Also the bike is a lot more responsive across the rev range. Its quite noticeable. 

I did have the RC ECU with the Lambda turned off through Tuner Pro. The only other contributing factor could be that a previous owner paid a guy a lot of money to @#$$#! around with the ECU to try and remove the stumble to no avail. Maybe he caused some of the poor running with other changes but as I understand it most standard maps cause the constant throttle stumble.

I tell you its night and day. Couldn't believe it. Biggest grin inside a helmet for a long time.....

Probably because the stumble is dependant on a few different parameters working together and unless they are it doesn't do it. So when my V11 was standard it used to have the stumble at times. When I changed to gear driven cam I went out and tried my best on several different rides to reproduce it to no avail and I reported here that it looked like the theory it was caused by cam chain slack might be correct. A ride or two later it was back again which I reported here. So a combination of rpm, oat, engine temp throttle position and baro pressure all influence the fuel injector duty cycle hence the fuel mixture and the ignition timing. Somewhere it seems when the combination of all or a few of these is aligned you get the stumble. So in my case I couldn't get it to stumble but then, different oat/engine temp and condition it's back. I think it's unlikely the Ti ecu fixes it or that would have been figured out 20 years ago. The fuel and ignition maps don't lie that's for sure.

So here are the Delta fuel and ignition maps for a std 2000 V11 Sport and the Titanium ecu map. The delta map is a comparison map between the 2 maps you have loaded in Tunerpro to look at not the raw data but the difference between the two. The minus figures here indicate the original map being compared to is a lesser value than the comparison map which in this case is the Ti map as can be seen in the header. The all zero's indicates the maps are identical, no differences.

The stumble is always down at very low throttle openings and usually around 2800-3200 rpm. Could also be a combination of the above AND the TPS and airscrew and TB balance factored in as well.

Ciao

[NicoNZ]

15 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Probably because the stumble is dependant on a few different parameters working together and unless they are it doesn't do it. So when my V11 was standard it used to have the stumble at times. When I changed to gear driven cam I went out and tried my best on several different rides to reproduce it to no avail and I reported here that it looked like the theory it was caused by cam chain slack might be correct. A ride or two later it was back again which I reported here. So a combination of rpm, oat, engine temp throttle position and baro pressure all influence the fuel injector duty cycle hence the fuel mixture and the ignition timing. Somewhere it seems when the combination of all or a few of these is aligned you get the stumble. So in my case I couldn't get it to stumble but then, different oat/engine temp and condition it's back. I think it's unlikely the Ti ecu fixes it or that would have been figured out 20 years ago. The fuel and ignition maps don't lie that's for sure.

So here are the Delta fuel and ignition maps for a std 2000 V11 Sport and the Titanium ecu map. The delta map is a comparison map between the 2 maps you have loaded in Tunerpro to look at not the raw data but the difference between the two. The minus figures here indicate the original map being compared to is a lesser value than the comparison map which in this case is the Ti map as can be seen in the header. The all zero's indicates the maps are identical, no differences.

The stumble is always down at very low throttle openings and usually around 2800-3200 rpm. Could also be a combination of the above AND the TPS and airscrew and TB balance factored in as well.

Ciao

Thanks for that and yes the graphs do not lie although mine stumbled ALL the time at the 2800-3000 rpm range once up to temperature. Going through the decent tune up thread somewhat reduced it but it was still there all the time. The only change was the ECU and it has gone completely. I see another thread here where someone reported the same symptoms and once the TI ECU was swapped out the stumble was completely gone. The only change made.

Also at 3000 rpm in 6th, on a downhill it would stumble due to no load on the motor as in constant throttle. Now completely gone.

The other difference is driveability. By that I mean on / off throttle smoothness. Its a joy to ride now from the improvement in that area. Gear changes are a lot smoother because of this improvement. 

I did have a link to Meinhoff's latest map and actually downloaded it. Its been a year and cannot be sure which map it is so looking to find that map to try for a comparison. The file name of the one I have is 2017.08.31_#93_6.bin I wonder if this is a Meinhof map.

[NicoNZ]

16 hours ago, footgoose said:

So... I used a hammer and then I found this thread. A better idea.....

 

I will post my thread addressing the same, if I can find it.

Excellent! Thanks, I worry about the comment re how thin the TI is. Where the straps meet at the top there is some wear into the can. Must be this there!

[docc]

1 hour ago, NicoNZ said:

Thanks for that and yes the graphs do not lie although mine stumbled ALL the time at the 2800-3000 rpm range once up to temperature. Going through the decent tune up thread somewhat reduced it but it was still there all the time. The only change was the ECU and it has gone completely. I see another thread here where someone reported the same symptoms and once the TI ECU was swapped out the stumble was completely gone. The only change made.

Also at 3000 rpm in 6th, on a downhill it would stumble due to no load on the motor as in constant throttle. Now completely gone.

The other difference is driveability. By that I mean on / off throttle smoothness. Its a joy to ride now from the improvement in that area. Gear changes are a lot smoother because of this improvement. 

I did have a link to Meinhoff's latest map and actually downloaded it. Its been a year and cannot be sure which map it is so looking to find that map to try for a comparison. The file name of the one I have is 2017.08.31_#93_6.bin I wonder if this is a Meinhof map.

Yes, I believe #93_6 is Meinolf’s latest V11 map.

[Scud]

I decided I've been pushing the electrical-dead Scura around in the garage for too long, and that I also hate doing electrical work. So I made an appointment to have a professional repair it (had to book it out 4 weeks). That gives me time to freshen it up so it will be ready to ride when I get it back. Ordered fluids on Amazon, and a set of Angel GTs on Revzilla.

Also ordered new tires for the Stelvio, which I think I will go ride now.