docc Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Just to clarify , the "sidestand" interlock relay (middle #3 realy) is energized by the gearbox neutral switch. The sidestand switch bypasses all that. Probably makes no difference, but it is a common misconception due to the nomenclature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footgoose Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Just to clarify (not to negate the points being made), the "sidestand" interlock relay (middle #3 realy) is energized by the gearbox neutral switch. The sidestand switch bypasses all that. Probably makes no difference, but it is a common misconception due to the nomenclature. docc, just to follow on that point for a sec... does that mean the sidestand switch can, if one want's it gone, just be disconnected/removed and that leaves 3rd relay with nothing to do? Would that also mean if you just removed the 3r, the switch is bypassed and the bike runs or will that shut it down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 More that Relay 3 has nothing electrically to do with the sidestand switch. The Sidestand Switch allows the bike to run (passing current to the Run Switch) as long as the stand is up. the Sidestand Switch opens with the stand down and shuts the bike off. If the sidestand Switch is shorted (it's two wires connected), the bike will run regardless of stand position. Read: you can ride off with your sidestand down. It is the Neutral Switch on the gearbox that detects the bike is in neutral and safe to start with the sidestand down. It is the Neutral Switch that activates the middle Relay 3, essentially bypassing the sidestand switch to send current to the Run Switch. So, removing Relay 3 the bike will start and run as long as the sidestand is up regardless of what gear it is in. Realize the Clutch Switch interlock will require the clutch to be disengaged to turn the starter over, but if you release the clutch with the bike in gear, off she goes. A V11 with no Neutral Switch or Relay 3 will not sit on its sidetand and idle if the sidestand switch is functional. While Relay 3 might should be called the "Neutral Relay" it is not. It is the "Sidestand Relay" ostensibly to tell us why it is there, but not how it is energized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdinova Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 If I may add to confusion. As stated above and DO ONLY AT YOUR OWN RISK OR PERIL !!!!! I just adjusted the switch on my Kickstand so it never engages. In this way, I can start my bike while it's on the kick stand. I still have to pull the clutch, and it better be in Neutral (I think.. haven't actually verified... don't want to know I just always make sure it is in Neutral), and it will start. I'm not a fan of removing parts to bypass them. If I decide I want the kickstand switch to essentially act like a kill switch, just takes a 10mm open end I believe to adjust the lock nut. Again...DO ONLY AT YOUR OWN RISK OR PERIL !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Desidinova, I never considered that the activating bolt could be adjusted or removed to leave the Sidestand Switch always closed (on); no need to twist wires together or short the switch! But, you should check: your V11 will start in gear and ride off with the stand down, yes? If your V11 would not otherwise start and run on the sidestand in neutral, it's because either the Neutral switch is faulty (they can sometimes be "cleaned" and/or lubricated), or the middle Relay 3 is faulty. The connection to the Neutral Switch is particularly vulnerable to loosening and corrosion, and as Kiwi_Roy has taught us, the relay connections can loosen. Does your neutral light in the instrument cluster illuminate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 The sidestand switch is doomed to fail eventually probably at the most inconvenient time, so best be prepared. If you look at the wiring the relay contacts 30 & 87 are in parallel with the stand switch, it's just a matter of wrapping a strand of bare wire around the two relay pins or leaving the relay out and stuffing a wire in the 30 & 87 sockets. Some Guzzis have a different stand switch and use the relay contacts 30 & 87a, just a matter of looking into the socket to see where it has metal contacts The Neutral light doesn't need the relay. Like others I was reluctant to do away with the stand switch but it failed so it's not going back, from now on it's just like my 3 other Guzzis with no stand interlock. I may use the relay for the horn or something useful. If you make alterations to the wiring for goodness sake make a note on the schematic for the next owner, we are only caretakers for these magnificent beasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 The sidestand switch is doomed to fail eventually probably at the most inconvenient time, so best be prepared. If you look at the wiring the relay contacts 30 & 87 are in parallel with the stand switch, it's just a matter of wrapping a strand of bare wire around the two relay pins or leaving the relay out and stuffing a wire in the 30 & 87 sockets. Some Guzzis have a different stand switch and use the relay contacts 30 & 87a, just a matter of looking into the socket to see where it has metal contacts The Neutral light doesn't need the relay. Like others I was reluctant to do away with the stand switch but it failed so it's not going back, from now on it's just like my 3 other Guzzis with no stand interlock. I may use the relay for the horn or something useful. If you make alterations to the wiring for goodness sake make a note on the schematic for the next owner, we are only caretakers for these magnificent beasts. Hmmmm . . . my wiring schematic shows the Sidestand Switch between the Ignition Switch and the Run Switch - no relay. And also the Neutral Switch grounds (earths) both the indicator light (no relay) and pulls in Relay 3. Kiwi_Roy, are you seeing V11 that use a relay for the Sidestand Switch itself? (I can see how jumping Relay 3 would bypass the relay, the neutral switch and the sidestand switch, all. In a pinch, much better than trying to twist sidestand switch wires together!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Just looking at 3 versions of VII they all have the relay 3 contacts in parallel with stand switch Sidestand Switch ----|---------------| |---------------|-----------------> To Kill switch and Start button | | |---------------| |---------------| Neutral Relay 30 / 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Okay, gotcha. Since the two circuits run in parallel, the Neutral Relay can be jumped 30->87 and effectively bypass the Sidestand Switch (and the Neutral Switch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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