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V11 Sport 2001 intermittent stalling


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And the TPS is very easy to check with a meter, just tap into the wire with a sewing pin and connect the other meter lead to chassis.

 

My manual shows the slider connected to pin 1

If you hold the plug so you are looking into the sockets  with the catch at the bottom pin one is lower left

If you want to make a more permanent arrangement bare a little bit of insulation and solder a short wire to it ending with a blue insulated connector, they are just the right size for a meter probe.

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Received my 10-pack of new Omron relays from Online Components (thanks Docc), and installed the 5, all good. That leaves 5 for anyone who needs them. $20 shipped within the continental US. 

A few suggestions: The backfiring then dying might be related to 1/ Valve clearances, 2/ Induction Rubber Sleeves, 3/ Ignition coil or ignition lead faults.   1/ a sputter, cough problem when ve

Not sure what the added "1" designation is.  I do not see it in the product description sheet from OMRON ("R" is surge suppression /built in resistor): https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/product

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There is the wonderful Caspers TPS Breakout Harness that Danl had produced for us.

 

I could not find my TPS fault using (milli)voltage readings on my Triplett meter, but when I read the resistance through the potentiometer while slowly opening and closing the throttle, the *jump* in resistance showed the fault clearly.

 

If you are using guzzidiag, you can monitor a selection of sensors and watch at the failure point for any that demonstrate a sudden and unexpected reading.

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FWIW, I had an erratically running/stalling motor in a bike which I had convinced myself was thermally related. Couldn't figure it out, sat down in the shop and stared at it for a few minutes..ok, ok..a lot of minutes....and the answer was right in front of my face. I had covered some tubing with a braided shield and the sharp ends had chewed through adjacent wire insulation of conductors in the signal path which fires the spark plugs. 

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My 2001 V11 has been going through the same problems. Ride, stop, a short time later, try to start, stalls, let it cool, runs fine. I posted on this problem a few months ago. I had an interesting conversation with a tech at Harpers MG who said vapor lock can be a problem with our 2000-2001 V11s given the location of the fuel pump, right over the center of the motor. He said this problem was dealt with by Guzzi when they moved the fuel pump forward in the 2002+ V11s. He said he can send me the mounting clamps for the 2002 V11 fuel pumps and extended fuel line which would fix the problem. For what it is worth, my fuel pump is on the bottom of the backbone, with the filter on the top.

 

Does any one have experience with this fix?

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There is the wonderful Caspers TPS Breakout Harness that Danl had produced for us.

 

I could not find my TPS fault using (milli)voltage readings on my Triplett meter, but when I read the resistance through the potentiometer while slowly opening and closing the throttle, the *jump* in resistance showed the fault clearly.

 

If you are using guzzidiag, you can monitor a selection of sensors and watch at the failure point for any that demonstrate a sudden and unexpected reading.

So when she started stalling again, I had the same thought. Hooked up Guzzidiag and while very slowly increasing throttle until the moment she fails again, looking at TPS voltage and degrees translation as well. I even looked at the pre-ignition value while doing this, but none of them showed any jumps or numbers out of the ordinary.

 

Questions:

- if the regulator would be the source, can I measure that with an ordinary multimeter, or would that not pick up any spikes? Do I require to use a scope?

- aside from regulator/TPS/timing sensor, are there any other possible culprits? Could it be mechanical? Related to the rattle?

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That rattle is at the back of my mind also ... and the old saying that if there are two things going on - there's more than a good chance they are related ... alas I can not add any further insight as to the likely culprit however.

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What do you mean with "regulator be the source" and what do you want to measure with an ordinary multimeter?

 

If you want to measure what regulator gives you, you can pull fuse #3 (30A), start the engine and measure between each fuse socket contact and battery negative. One one side you will have battery's  on another regulator's voltage.

 

However, I don't think you can have any spikes coming from the regulator At least not with the battery connected (fuse #3 in place!). The battery would iron out any spikes produced by the regulator.

 

Anyway, the regulator with no (or moderate, there will always be some) load should give you nice 14-14.6V

 

You may want to check your ignition coils, if you have not done that already: https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/how-to-test-a-spark-plug-ignition-coil-by-eduardo-ruelas

 

There are no reference values for coils in the workshop manual, so I suggest you measure both and compare.

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What do you mean with "regulator be the source" and what do you want to measure with an ordinary multimeter?

 

If you want to measure what regulator gives you, you can pull fuse #3 (30A), start the engine and measure between each fuse socket contact and battery negative. One one side you will have battery's  on another regulator's voltage.

 

However, I don't think you can have any spikes coming from the regulator At least not with the battery connected (fuse #3 in place!). The battery would iron out any spikes produced by the regulator.

 

Anyway, the regulator with no (or moderate, there will always be some) load should give you nice 14-14.6V

 

You may want to check your ignition coils, if you have not done that already: https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/how-to-test-a-spark-plug-ignition-coil-by-eduardo-ruelas

 

There are no reference values for coils in the workshop manual, so I suggest you measure both and compare.

The regulator gives me about 14.35v with no load. When the issue occurs, my thought would be that an overvoltage would occur, causing the ecu to switch off.

I checked the coils, they measured out fine, plus I cannot imagine them both failing together, as both cylinders have the misfires.

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What do you mean with "regulator be the source" and what do you want to measure with an ordinary multimeter?

 

If you want to measure what regulator gives you, you can pull fuse #3 (30A), start the engine and measure between each fuse socket contact and battery negative. One one side you will have battery's  on another regulator's voltage.

 

However, I don't think you can have any spikes coming from the regulator At least not with the battery connected (fuse #3 in place!). The battery would iron out any spikes produced by the regulator.

 

Anyway, the regulator with no (or moderate, there will always be some) load should give you nice 14-14.6V

 

You may want to check your ignition coils, if you have not done that already: https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/how-to-test-a-spark-plug-ignition-coil-by-eduardo-ruelas

 

There are no reference values for coils in the workshop manual, so I suggest you measure both and compare.

The regulator gives me about 14.35v with no load. When the issue occurs, my thought would be that an overvoltage would occur, causing the ecu to switch off.

I checked the coils, they measured out fine, plus I cannot imagine them both failing together, as both cylinders have the misfires.

 

My, my . . . such an elusive problem!

 

Beneath the fuse block, both Fuse#1 and #2 have additional spade connectors that are for the ECU and Fuel Injection relays. These are easy to inspect, clean and secure. Yet, they will not create that unusual rattle noise. Timing chain/ tensioner failure? Would that be revealed by observing the timing marks with a strobe when the stumble occurs?

gallery_328_223_160743.jpeg

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Eliminate the regulator next time it's spluttering by unplugging fuse 3

Don't leave it out too long though or battery will go flat.

 

 

Sent from my shoe phone!

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Can you tell if the bike is running rich or lean? What is the color of the spark plugs?

 

If you still believe this is electrical, you may want to disconnect the oil temp sensor. In theory, this should have ECU ignore engine temperature and have it run richer than necessary. See how that goes.

 

Another electrical alternative is engine rev/position sensor (at the front left, above the generator cover), which needs to be properly spaced (0.7-0.9mm) in relation to the toothed wheel. Spacers are available for this. 

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I can't imagine it being the timing chain, as the bike runs perfectly fine when cold or warm (anything aside from "hot" really.

 

The spark plugs look perfect and equal. It does not seem to be running rich or lean, until she stumbles. Then (of course) she smells of petrol.

 

I will retry with the oil temp sensor and fuse #3 unplugged, and I will inspect the cam position sensor.

Questions:

- is fuse #3 the 30A fuse?

- is there any way (except for distance) to check the cam position sensor?

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Yes, fuse #3 is the 30A fuse. If you have a big enough Ampmeter or a digital one protected against too high current, you can remove the fuse, connect the ampmeter there and check the current flowing from the regulator into the battery.

 

Dunno how to check the cam sensor. The manual says check connections and sensor's resistance, but it does not say what the resistance should it be.   :huh2: Guess that that kind of a fault would be present at any temperature.

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The current will be hard to measure it's not a smooth DC but a series of half wave pulses at high frequency and I suspect 35-40 Amps in magnitude that's why I suggested eliminating the alternator by pulling the 30 Amp fuse to let the bike run on battery alone for a few minutes.

 

The cam sensor is a very simple device, just a coil around a magnet 680 Ohms, as the teeth of the wheel pass each one disturbs the field a little bit to cause a spike in the coil

If it had an intermittent open circuit it would drop out the power to coils, injectors and the pump and of course the ignition could get all out of sync since the ECU counts the pulses from the sensor starting at the missing tooth to know when to fire.

 

Lately I have been reading of a number of failures in the sensor, I think it might be wise to have a spare since it would leave you stranded. Apparently it's also used by Fiat although I don't know for what model.

An easy way to gap it is stick something like a blob of JB Quick or wax on the tip, install it then take it out again and measure the blob.  An air gap 0.7 to 0.9mm according to the WS manual.

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