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ANSWERED Sticking clutch?

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So, the flywheel surely shows significant wear, but that isn't what was making the extra noise:

gallery_328_223_321200.jpeg

There was certainly enough worn friction material and just enough oil leak to gum up the movement of the plates, especially the intermediate:

gallery_328_223_112715.jpeg

And these unfortunate surfaces to consider:

gallery_328_223_1498244.jpeg

The noise was very likely the loose input hub. We found it completely loose and rattling around. The retention washer had failed to retain the input hub on the gearbox input shaft and it had backed all the way off. I guess it just didn't have quite enough room to fall off. :o

 

Many thanks to both  :notworthy: Andy York and Josh :luigi: for the incomparable assistance. :thumbsup:

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Apparently this "retention washer" for the input hub was never adequately engaged into the nut notch to effect adequate retention. The manual does not mention folding a tab in, but evidently this is how the keyed retention washer is to be used.

gallery_328_223_897149.jpeg

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Yes...  that is some nasty... but, if the input hub was loose, that was the problem...everything else is secondary.

looks to me like you need everything that goes in there.( i would) 

flywheel - pressure plate- 2 clutch discs - intermediate plate - and an input hub. 

Let me know what size you have and I will check the other one I have.

As far as how the wear on the teeth happens ... only a theory ... the springs only work in a "horizontal" attitude

  big v-twin with uneven firing pulses transmits torque in a manner 90º to the springs

springs working front to back   --    clutch plates hitting side to side -- if sitting at a red light with the clutch pulled in...bang bang bang.

if you sitting there in neutral, idling, not much going on. 

so much for the 1100rpm idle. mine has been around 900 rpm since forever.

you must be cruising the square on weekends.....LMAO  ( its a southern thing )

also 

I assume you got everything disassembled with out needing the flywheel lock ...if you think it will be an advantage upon reassembly

let me know  and I will get it to you .

 

:ninja:

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I was fortunate to have Josh-the-Improvisor here and we created a flywheel lock, but it might be a nice touch for the torquing upon reassembly. :thumbsup:

 

The intermediate plate had to be pried out after dragging goop out of the flywheel teeth, yet the loose input hub was definitely holding the clutch from full engagement.  This is, not at all, what I expected to find. But, *expectations* can often lead one astray . . . :huh:

 

Such a treat to have the correct tools. Thanks, again, man!

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How is the condition of the transmission input shaft - where the loose input hub makes contact?

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How is the condition of the transmission input shaft - where the loose input hub makes contact?

@Scud: Fortunately, the gearbox input shaft shows no damage or wear to the splines or the threads where the hub screws on. 

 

@Andy: input hub teeth: 22mm, seal "nose" 10mm

 

BTW, the friction discs measure ~7.36 mm (new= ~8.13), but three of the friction surfaces were loose, and two very loose. 

 

 . . . 'round these-here parts, we'uns call that *slap-wore-out!* :grin:

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I have eighteen part numbers to hunt down, not including those to address my persistent, pesky oil leak(s).

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attachicon.gifIMG_0296 (1).jpgI must have one from a single plater.

 

sorry 

 

Ooooohhhhh.......  That is the missing link to make a 5-speed RAM clutch work with a 6-speed gearbox.  The RAM clutch is ONE part, fully assembled and balanced. Just bolt it up, and potentially have a pushrod modified... That's instead of: flywheel, pressure plate, springs (10), friction discs (2), intermediate plate, starter ring, and you needed an input hub anyway. Major time savings and you get a crisper engagement and an easier lever pull.  You gotta seriously consider the RAM at this point.

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I have eighteen part numbers to hunt down, not including those to address my persistent, pesky oil leak(s).

These 2 on ebay are guzzitech as a seller. they look like they are the same unit to me, but are listed separately. Either a mistake or he has 2

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/moto-guzzi-sport-1100-V11-sport-flywheel-clutch-assembly/272724139451?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/moto-guzzi-sport-1100-V11-sport-flywheel-clutch-assembly/322561966899?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

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That looks like the one - for the same price as a used clutch. If you go that way, get the schnor washers for the flywheel bolts. I would also replace the throwout bearing while your there. And more one thing - MG Cycle has two different pushrods for 5-speed transmission. Maybe one of those would work (or be easier to modify) than the 6-speed pushrod.

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I remember a member that modified a pushrod. For this application?. . . that is to say, I can't recall who, or where to look for what to modify . . .

 

So much better to source the correct part (applicable pushrod), if we can divine that . . .

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I recall that thread and have tried to re-find it a couple times. I think the member is located in Europe and that he only had to have a small bit machined off the clutch end of the pushrod in order to fit into a slightly smaller push-button. I also think there is not "correct part" to be sourced - all because the 5-speed and 6-speed used different size buttons in the clutches. I also think it was for a Rosso Mandello.

 

Parts list:

  • Ram 5-speed clutch
  • Throwout bearing (since you're there)
  • Shop to modify a pushrod (I have a spare pushrod that I will donate to the cause)
  • RAM 6-speed input hub (or take-off from Scura/Tenni/Rosso Mandello)

If you could re-find that thread or document this yourself, it would save future owners of unconverted single-plate bikes a lot of trouble - and provide a less-expensive, better shifting option for other high-mileage bikes facing 100% clutch part replacement.

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