thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 The valves should rock at TDC as in both open when the piston is all the way up Sent from my shoe phone! Yeah. The rocker arms in the left cylinder did at TDC, but I had trouble with the right. Interestingly, the left cylinder is the one with the valve hitting. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The valves should rock at TDC as in both open when the piston is all the way up Sent from my shoe phone! Yeah. The rocker arms in the left cylinder did at TDC, but I had trouble with the right. Interestingly, the left cylinder is the one with the valve hitting. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk How can that be, left and right are tied together. I started thinking the Right Hand cam had been assigned to the Left hand cylinder since they fire 270 degrees apart not 360 but that couldn't happen could it? If the valves are rocking at the right point it would seem impossible to make contact unless a valve was sticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 The valves should rock at TDC as in both open when the piston is all the way up Sent from my shoe phone! Yeah. The rocker arms in the left cylinder did at TDC, but I had trouble with the right. Interestingly, the left cylinder is the one with the valve hitting. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk How can that be, left and right are tied together.I started thinking the Right Hand cam had been assigned to the Left hand cylinder since they fire 270 degrees apart not 360 but that couldn't happen could it? If the valves are rocking at the right point it would seem impossible to make contact unless a valve was sticking. I'm not sure, but as I posted, earlier: "While adjusting the valve clearance on my workbench, the left cylinder was easy to do. The right was a different story. The adjustment screws had to be almost completely backed out to get the proper clearance, and only then did the push-rods spin freely. I had to keep readjusting the clearance on the right cylinder after turning the engine over by hand. It was also interesting to look at the timing marks on the flywheel. I got the "S" exactly where it would be viewed from the hole when the engine is in the frame. However, when getting the "D" in the same place, the piston was at TDC, but there was little to no play with the rocker arms, hence the adjustment screws having to be backed all the way out." None of the valves seemed to be sticking, as I saw them moving as I turned the engine by hand. Have you, or anyone else, for that matter, rebuilt the timing? If so, do you recall if the pin hole on the cam was at the top or the bottom? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Actually, thinking back, and looking at the manual, the pin hole on the cam was at the top, roughly around 10 o'clock, which is where the manual shows it. I also re-watched the video on thisoldtractor.com about reassembling the timing, and I did it just like that. So, wouldn't that mean that it's in the correct position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinus89 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I just started reading this thread... The position of the phonic wheel (with missing tooth) has nothing to do with the mechanicals (valve timing). It only tells the computer when to inject and fire. If it would be 180deg wrong, the computern would just inject and fire on the wrong cilinder, causing the engine not to run. Some questions: - Are you entirely sure the flywheel is correctly on the crankshaft? - Did you not forget to put in the little key in the crankshaft timing gear? I can't remember whether that was a separate one or not... I think if you misplace the crankshaft by 360deg on the camshaft, nothing happens. The valves won't hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 I just started reading this thread... The position of the phonic wheel (with missing tooth) has nothing to do with the mechanicals (valve timing). It only tells the computer when to inject and fire. If it would be 180deg wrong, the computern would just inject and fire on the wrong cilinder, causing the engine not to run. Some questions: - Are you entirely sure the flywheel is correctly on the crankshaft? - Did you not forget to put in the little key in the crankshaft timing gear? I can't remember whether that was a separate one or not... I think if you misplace the crankshaft by 360deg on the camshaft, nothing happens. The valves won't hit. The crankshaft timing gear doesn't have a key. There is a key on the crank, but that is for the alternator. They only reason I worry about the phonic wheel positioning is that the pin that goes into it and the camshaft has to line up with the timing gear, as well. So if the phonic wheel is off, the cam gear would be, also. I am pretty sure the flywheel is correctly on. Then again, I installed it after the timing was put together, so if the timing is off, the flywheel would be, as well. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelos Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The crankshaft timing gear doesn't have a key. There is a key on the crank, but that is for the alternator. They only reason I worry about the phonic wheel positioning is that the pin that goes into it and the camshaft has to line up with the timing gear, as well. So if the phonic wheel is off, the cam gear would be, also. I am pretty sure the flywheel is correctly on. Then again, I installed it after the timing was put together, so if the timing is off, the flywheel would be, as well. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Of course the crankshaft timing gear have a key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 You say you had to keep re-adjusting the RH tappets, both or just one? Is it possible something has fallen down the tappet socket simulating an extra long push rod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 The crankshaft timing gear doesn't have a key. There is a key on the crank, but that is for the alternator. They only reason I worry about the phonic wheel positioning is that the pin that goes into it and the camshaft has to line up with the timing gear, as well. So if the phonic wheel is off, the cam gear would be, also. I am pretty sure the flywheel is correctly on. Then again, I installed it after the timing was put together, so if the timing is off, the flywheel would be, as well. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Of course the crankshaft timing gear have a key.You're right. I'm looking at it right now. The gear is aligned on the key. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 You say you had to keep re-adjusting the RH tappets, both or just one? Is it possible something has fallen down the tappet socket simulating an extra long push rod? Both. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Here are pictures of my timing with the marks aligned and the flywheel with the "S" where it is supposed to be. Look alright to you guys? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The timing marks look perfect, Since the stampings on the flywheel can be put in 6 different positions I don't know. Is the piston on appropriate cylinder at TDC? I'm not an expert on timing I never go by marks only piston position. Obviously the phonic wheel on a FI motor has to be lined up correctly with crank position. While you have the timing cover off check the sensor gap, its much easier with a feeler gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 The timing marks look perfect, Since the stampings on the flywheel can be put in 6 different positions I don't know. Is the piston on appropriate cylinder at TDC? I'm not an expert on timing I never go by marks only piston position. Obviously the phonic wheel on a FI motor has to be lined up correctly with crank position. While you have the timing cover off check the sensor gap, its much easier with a feeler gauge. With the timing marks aligned, the LH cylinder is at TDC. When attaching the flywheel, I lined up the markings on it while the timing marks were lined up. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelonewonderer Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 I think I mentioned it before, but I took the engine to a professional guzzi mechanic and he told me the timing was good. The only thing I can think of is that when I rebuilt the engine, there was some damage to the cylinder heads on the gasket surface, so I had them machined at the same machine shop I've used to fix heads to other engines, as well as some crankshaft and conrod work and everything worked out fine. I don't know how much was shaved off, but maybe it could have been too much, which could be why the valves are hitting. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I'm no expert, but I've "hit" valves on other engines and there was, immediately, no compression. Is it possible to hit valves and not bend them enough to fail the seat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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