Jump to content

Battery light flicker


Go to solution Solved by docc,

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 95
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

You mean your's actually works? I think mine is activated by phases of the moon.

Docc said "So it can be said that when the battery is fully charged the charging Voltage is the same but the regulator is allowing less current through" Not exactly, it wont let anything through unti

I would put an amount of electrical grease in the cavities before plugging it up for a perfect connection .

 

 

I believe if you can solve the flakey reference the regulator should last the bike out.

This is a noble goal!

 

No value in increasing the red charging wire gauge?

Sorry did I miss something ?

 

Hmm, well, Kiwi_Roy has long cast aspersions on the way the V11 regulator picks up its voltage reference from the Headlamp circuit. Those of us who have removed the headlamps from that circuit with dedicated power and separate relay(s) are affecting the reference voltage, perhaps adversely. It "may be" good method to source the voltage reference somewhere else in the harness (K_Roy favors the ECU/ 4th Relay)

 

(This is my basic understanding at this point.)   K_Roy's full post here:http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20152&p=229728

 

-> [i'm just trying to learn here . . .]

Link to post
Share on other sites

My next step is to *simply* reinstall all my grounds/earths. My understanding is the V11 has three terminals stacked on the negative side of the battery: 1) Main Ground Cable to the gearbox; 2) Fuel/Ignition harness; 3) Lighting/Charging/all other "Electrical System."

 

Other than my "accessory" grounds, those are the only three terminals on the V11 battery negative?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, well, Kiwi_Roy has long cast aspersions on the way the V11 regulator picks up its voltage reference from the Headlamp circuit. Those of us who have removed the headlamps from that circuit with dedicated power and separate relay(s) are affecting the reference voltage, perhaps adversely. It "may be" good method to source the voltage reference somewhere else in the harness (K_Roy favors the ECU/ 4th Relay)

 

 

(This is my basic understanding at this point.)   K_Roy's full post here:http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20152&p=229728

 

-> [i'm just trying to learn here . . .]

"Reference" is a misnomer here. Assuming Kiwi_Roy schematic is correct, the "voltage reference" is provided by zener diodes internal to the regulator. The 12V comes from the battery via F3/30A fuse, zero or ground goes via chassis (heat sink) and directly to battery negative (black cable bolted to regulator's heat sink).

 

Both red-green and red-black wires from the regulator are positive (12V). Blue line is the return line (negative) for the charging lamp. Once pulled low, the lamp goes on.

 

The lamp will flicker or be permanently on whenever battery's tension is above the preset regulator's tension. On low/idle RPMs AND full battery the regulator may not achieve "reference tension", hence the flicker.

Link to post
Share on other sites

While fooling around with the grounding at the battery with the bike hot, it went into a fit. Red light full on, could not keep it running, voltage steady just under 12.8v.

 

Once it cooled down, back to the usual flicker at idle. The regulator can develop heat sensitive failure?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry I can't post the schematic from here. If anyone has it available this is how I understand the operation of the light.

(I have the zenner diodes drawn backwards, Z2 just stops the Voltage on Q3 from going too high or low and damaging the transistor)

Q3 turns on the light determined by the Voltage on the 0.5 microfarad capacitor, when it's positive the light turns On. if it's negative or zero it will turn Off.

The Voltage reference from the headlight circuit tries to charge the capacitor in the positive direction through the 390k resistor and the diodes D6/D7 try to drive it negative through the 220k to turn the light Off.

I may be wrong but if you look at the curves I show on the RH side the top one shows a series of half wave pulses but below it shows another curve with one pulse missing. This missing pulse is when the battery is up to setpoint. the SCR doesn't fire so this means the alternator is not grounded and the potential goes strongly negative, perhaps 40 - 60 Volts discharging the 0.5 capacitor and turning the light Off.

At idle the regulator is only skipping the odd pulse because the alternator output is much lower, it's still charging most of the time.

 

There are 14 coils in the alternator so at idle it's putting out 14 x 1000 RPM or 233 Hz

 

IMHO the light is pretty useless, if you blow a headlight fuse you loose power on the charge lamp so of course it will be off.

 

With after market headlight relays you lose the Voltage drop through the headl9ight circuit so it stands to reason the battery won't charge as high, about 0.6 Volts.

 

The bulb is really a separate function from the regulator, it can fail without effecting charging.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed mine ghosts a little bit, perhap since I installed the LED headlight bulb or because of the reverse-placebo-effect of this thread.

 

I installed the LED because I wanted to take stress of the charging system and getting brighter light.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed mine ghosts a little bit, perhaps since I installed the led headlight bulb or because of the reverse-placebo-effect of this thread.

Well put!  :grin:

 

So, from what I gather, the flicker at idle is 1) "normal" if the battery is in a high state of charge, or 2) a sign that the regulator is on its way out, or 3) a sign of sketchy connectivity somewhere.

 

I just couldn't leave the terminal stack on the battery and rebuilt my junction block configured differently for improved contact and no stacked terminals. Of course two out of four vibration blocks to mount the ECU had to be rebuilt as well.

IMG_4510.jpg

With the battery showing 12.70v, I sparked it off and then voltage at high idle (~1500 rpm) is 14.17v.  

Now to wait on a day to ride to see if 1) flicker remains, and 2) if it throws another charge failure fit when hot.

IMG_4515.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the meantime: another electrical question:

 

While my EnerSys charger actually sets the voltage lower in the float phase, the regulator does not. Is it that the way the regulator “skips pulses” it controls charging by reducing the effective current while the voltage remains the same?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just caught that "high state of charge".   I've kept the Greenie battery on a trickle charger all winter.

 

I should've done it on my Trooper and Duramax since there were outside.   One new battery and two complete recharges on those.  It got real cold here man.   A nice 75 today.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When the regulator turns On the current flows for one complete half cycle, it is only limited to what the alternator can put out. I have wondered if this is what causes the 30 Amp fuse holder to fail.

Most other bikes use a shunt regulator that shorts out the alternator thus removing the supply.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

When the regulator turns On the current flows for one complete half cycle, it is only limited to what the alternator can put out. I have wondered if this is what causes the 30 Amp fuse holder to fail.

Most other bikes use a shunt regulator that shorts out the alternator thus removing the supply.  

So, can it be said (with my layman's understanding) that when the battery is fully charged, the charging voltage is the same, but the regulator is allowing less current through?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...