Tinus89 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Interesting that you lost the washer, how stupid can you be? Oh wait, I can't find mine either . I lost mine a few month ago, solved it by applying the soft type Lock Tite. I am planning to source a thinner washer eventually, as it still does not feel right... How come no one has mentioned that yet, using thread locking compound to substitute the nylon? Is there something I should know? So far never lost it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 You could always just safety wire that nut, or a nicer nut, on. I think it is funny that most other bikes I have owned / ridden used a mechanical lock of some sort, either a cotter pin or some such, to secure the axle nuts. The Guzzi seems to be one of the few that doesn't think your axle staying secured is that important. You can safety wire it, just remember to safety wire both ends. The nut and the axle itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I really have a hard time imagining a properly torqued axle nut coming loose. It's not "subject to rotation" the FAAs verbiage for more heroic measures such as safety wire or cotter pinning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewgnu Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I think that axle nut is the only nut i don’t use a torque wrench on. Probably cos my 3/8 wrench doesn’t read that high- I just do it very tight with a big-arse spanner. (Shrug emoji) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 According to Pete.. the proper torque is "Until you fart." Works for me.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 According to Pete.. the proper torque is "Until you fart." Works for me.. "P.Roper" torque . . . So, this business of "torque the axle from the drive side" . . . Any basis as to why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 According to Pete.. the proper torque is "Until you fart." Works for me.. "P.Roper" torque . . . So, this business of "torque the axle from the drive side" . . . Any basis as to why? Sure. You are just torquing the nut, not the whole assembly with the attendant drag involved if you are torquing the shaft. At least that makes sense to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 According to Pete.. the proper torque is "Until you fart." Works for me.. "P.Roper" torque . . . So, this business of "torque the axle from the drive side" . . . Any basis as to why? Sure. You are just torquing the nut, not the whole assembly with the attendant drag involved if you are torquing the shaft. At least that makes sense to me.. Yet the V11 Workshop Manual torque page states: "rear wheel spindle screw (housing side) 120Nm" I've always read that as torquing the axle, not the nut. I never did it that way, but that's how I read it. After so many struggles with my reardrive(s), I'm trying to follow the directions, now. But I'm curious about this special instruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pressureangle Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 According to Pete.. the proper torque is "Until you fart." Works for me.. "P.Roper" torque . . . So, this business of "torque the axle from the drive side" . . . Any basis as to why? Sure. You are just torquing the nut, not the whole assembly with the attendant drag involved if you are torquing the shaft. At least that makes sense to me.. Yet the V11 Workshop Manual torque page states: "Rear wheel spindle screw (housing side) 120Nm" I've always read that as torquing the axle, not the nut. I never did it that way, but that's how I read it. After so many struggles with my reardrive(s), I'm trying to follow the directions, now. But I'm curious about this special instruction. Purr-Happs you have the axle in backwards...? [edit/docc: That cannot be done. The axle goes in from the right ("housing side"), nutted on the left swingarm.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Phil Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I really have a hard time imagining a properly torqued axle nut coming loose. It's not "subject to rotation" the FAAs verbiage for more heroic measures such as safety wire or cotter pinning. Yes Chuck thats true. Although lockwire for instance isnt to stop a bolt coming loose, its to stop it falling out of the hole and fowling other stuff if it does. The reasons a bolt in a clamping application loosens is because. A....it was undertorqued. B....it was of insufficient strength and stretched under load to its yield point but (not necessarily) to failure point thus losing its tension. C..it was subject to fretting of the threads usually due to resonant vibration and therefore lost its tension/stretch due to wearing threads. D..the bolt used was too short and had insufficient stretch for the applied torque. In all these cases lockwire wont prevent the bolt from losing its clamping force and so its basically useless even if its still in the hole. The previous flight control nut example doesnt apply to the axle nut as most flight control bolt and nut applications such as this are rod end and/or clevis and the bolts are primarily taking shear and rotational loads and sometimes adequate bolt stretch is hard to achieve so more elaborate locking requirements are needed such as nylock nuts, pinning, locking tabs or a combination. A correctly torqued axle nut doesnt require a locking facility in my opinion. I've never seen one come loose that was correctly torqued in over 50 years. Honda once said that the reason they lockwired bolts on their race bikes wasnt to do with bolt retention but because they believed no one would be stupid enough to lockwire a bolt that wasnt tightened up in the first place. Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 ". . . correctly torqued" is the operative term. How is this entry from the V11 Workshop Manual to be interpreted: "Rear wheel spindle screw (housing side) 120Nm" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Just MHO, but sometimes Guzzi specs need to be taken with a lump of salt. Occasionally, I wonder if the guys (and girls) that write Guzzi manuals have ever turned a wrench. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Phil Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 ". . . correctly torqued" is the operative term. How is this entry from the V11 Workshop Manual to be interpreted: "Rear wheel spindle screw (housing side) 120Nm" Yes Italian translation. It could also be linked to how the assembly line process works. So if for the purposes of production assembly ease they have an air operated tool that installs and torques the axle from the bevel box side in one operation and they hold the nut with a spanner or other tool then the manual writer will use that discription and value even if it doesnt apply in the non production world. Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 Truly, perhaps best to take the translations with a shot of grappa! Just so odd, that added parenthetical phrase "housing side." I wonder what they were trying to say. [edit: I see LuckyPhil's post now. Interesting.] I can say it is A LOT harder to torque the axle to 120Nm by >lifting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewgnu Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Yeah funnily enough i only recently saw the “torque from housing side” info and initially thought ‘Oh no! But i’ve been tightening the nut side!’ Then i realised that i’ve had that wheel off dozens of times and never had a problem. And it’s definitely easier to push down to tighten! Otherwise you’d be lifting the bike off the stand?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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