Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hey all,

 

So, mine has got it as well, she is sick. A severe case o Startus Interruptus.

After a nice ride, parked the bike for about 15min and wanted to start her again, but all I get is a *click*. The instruments lights dim but she does not start. The Go Winky light is green. Tried jumpstarting her with a car, same result. There is clear load on the electrics, as even the car rpm drops a little when pushing the starter button.

 

Tried so far:

- Checked fuses, flipped the kill switch, shorted the sidestand switch.

- Rock her in gear to change the starter gear orientation, engine is free to move  but no luck.

- Checked the ground connection to the gearbox, fine.

 

Any ideas where I should look? :oldgit:

Now waiting for road side assistance...

 

Update: also in road-side assistance there are different "quality" service techs. I got the type that grows enthousiastic when his first three attempts don't yield any more results!

Second battery on battery + and frame bolt, response varying from *click* to *rrrrt*.

He then tapped the starter with a hammer, same result.

He then put power directly on the starter, which caused it to crank once and then just turn (which is interesting, without activating the starter relay it should only turn, not crank the engine!).

We then started the engine again using my battery (*click*) and a fresh, second battery: succes!! :grin::mg:

 

I will buy a new battery, but my questions are:

- Should I expect the starter to be past it as well?

- Is there anything else in the starter control I should look at, which could cause these symptoms? I read something on the forum but did not fully understand... :ninja:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, worth inspecting the condition of the magnets in the starter as well as cleaning and treating all of the connections especially the positive cable and the mounting bolts which ground the starter case.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never seen anything good from a tow truck driver with a hammer!!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, worth inspecting the condition of the magnets in the starter as well as cleaning and treating all of the connections especially the positive cable and the mounting bolts which ground the starter case.

 

I have already disassembled the back end, the brushes etc are fine (not a lot of debris either). All electical connections are clean.

How do I disassemble the front in order to check the magnets etc? I'm asking as it was a PITA to reassemble the rear end :cheese:

 

I have never seen anything good from a tow truck driver with a hammer!!

 

Actually, here in the NL, in order to become road side assistance, you first have to be an experienced car mechanic. Then you get company-specific training before you are sent out on the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You 'll need to unscrew the 3 (as I remember) torx bolts at the front. The ones that run all the way to the back of the starter.

 

It might have been the plunger on top of the start engine. It may got stuck just at the point the starter relay had not jet been able to let the start engine run. This cound occur in combination of a too weak battery or too much resistance in the wiring.

 

When the road-side assistance put power on the starter engine, it may have still been in gear 'cause it was stuck. This made it rev once. The plunger than came loose and the starter runs without revving the engine.

(just my guess)

 

I'd would check if the plunger can travel freely. Otherwise, clean and rub with some engine oil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd would check if the plunger can travel freely. Otherwise, clean and rub with some engine oil.

 

A new battery did fix the issue! But I will soon find some time to take apart the front part of the starter as well and give it a good clean+some oil:)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DO NOT allow anyone to hit the starter " barrel" with any metal objects . If you hit this and the magnets come loose or break , you are in trouble .

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DO NOT allow anyone to hit the starter " barrel" with any metal objects . If you hit this and the magnets come loose or break , you are in trouble .

 

I did not know this! The roadside assistance did so, but carefully tapping, not hammering away. I better check the front of the starter as well then...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uhhhh , you can Google this Valeo starter for an exploded diagram to see what is inside . EuroMotoElectrics has all the parts for these starters. YouTube should show how these or any permanent magnet starter works .

 FYI = any permanent magnet starter will spin with the battery hooked up backward . The starter will  rotate in the opposite direction and not rotate the flywheel . TRUST ME . I found this out after a friend replaced his battery on his riding mower .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the problem you are having is Voltage drop in the ignition switch

 

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_V11_Sport_Catalytic.gif

 

The Starter solenoid can draw 40-50 Amps as it pulls the starter gear into mesh. If the switch is a bit dirty the solenoid might only see 20 Amps, not enough to pull in but the Voltage drop will show up as dimming panel lights.

Even if the ignition switch was perfectly clean you probably only get about 30 Amps in the round-about route.

 

 

The earlier VIIs like my 2001 have the start relay terminal 30 powered direct from the battery through a fuse so it can easily supply 50 Amps which makes the gear engage in about 15 milliseconds every time  

You can check this out on Carl's site for the 1999 VII Sport

After the starter engages and the main contacts close the solenoid current drops to 10 Amps for the duration of cranking.

 

Applying a battery direct to the motor will not crank the engine because the starter gear is not engaged with the ring gear.

If you want to start most Guzzis apply 12 Volts to the spade connector on the solenoid or pull the start relay and apply 12 Volts to the 87 socket.

On my Griso, I replaced the wire between the relay and the spade connector leaving it long enough so that it will reach the battery positive if need be.

I just slipped a length of heat shrink over the bare spot on the wire to prevent it shorting to chassis.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So.... This explains the poor starting: two loose magnets.

 

Starter.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Installed a new starter a few days ago, what a difference! My starter must have been quite poor since I had the bike:rolleyes:

For people in Europe, I decided to be cheap and take a gamble by buying this starter: Under 60eur. Very happy with it, let's see how it lasts!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...