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swooshdave

Weird Battery Failure

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Weird in that I expected it to have failed already. After my overcharging incident I expected that to have killed the battery, instead it looked just fine. Bike started and ran perfectly a few weeks ago.

We had another beautiful day today and I was looking forward to a nice ride.

Turn key on...

6.3v

Not quite enough.

JaSyJ9b.jpg

I didn't realize this was a Moto Guzzi branded battery. It can't be original, not after this long. The PO might have notes on when the battery was replaced. I need to go back and look.

Undeterred I looked around the garage at the 4 other bikes... Bultaco? Yeah, no battery. The other two? Batteries too big.

The Norton battery is really small, obviously no electric starter so it just needs to hold a charge to kickstart. Since the Norton is on the bench waiting for a heart transplant and I was desperate to ride I give it a shot.

36tPyor.jpg

While too small overall it was the right thickness.

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A little padding (gloves) and give it a go. I'm not sure what the CCA are but I'm sure it's minimal. The bike did crank and start and that was good enough for me!

fPPMZmB.jpg

So off I went down the road in search for some lunch. I ended up in Willamina, which use to be a logging town, and although there are still plenty of logging trucks I'm sure it pale in comparison to the good old days.

Bike made it there and back and that's all I could ask.

I've got the old battery on a charger but I don't think it's going to come back. Now I need to find a replacement, luckily it will be raining for a while so I have time. 

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Pretty impressive to run across an old Spark 500! There may be a date code on it.

 

You "might" bring it back with the Deep Discharge Recovery method from the "Conditioning" thread, but probably not with a charger alone.

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We’re the Sparks ever sold here or did they only come with the bikes new?

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As far as I know, they are OEM only. I've replaced a couple. I think the oldest was maybe 12 years old. (!) AGMs die a "sudden death." Fine until the next time, and they are dead as a doornail. We left a brewpub one rainy night in our 7 year old Prius. It started normally. When we came home, it didn't have enough power to do the shut down sequence. Fortunately, there is a place to jump them under the hood, and I used a motorcycle battery to do that, or I wouldn't have been able to open the trunk to get the dead battery out. :)

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So just get an Odessey and not get a charger and try to revive this one?

 

Odyssey PC545 Powersports Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002ILK7M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Eq6MCb5YGTYY2

or

Odyssey PC545MJ Powersports Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XS9W9O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Qr6MCb52EQ6M9

 

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No reason to go MJ (Metal Jacket) for this application.

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If I buy the battery don't they come charged to like 30%? Do I need to also buy an Odyssey specific charger to bring it up to full charge?

When I plug in V11 Sport to the Odyssey site it comes back with the PC925L which seems like overkill. Where did the recommendation for the PC545 come from?

https://www.odysseybattery.com/battery_search.aspx?type=MOT

 

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PC545 is the direct replacement for the "Spark500." Not sure what that PC 925L is (?)

 

So, yep, as new these batteries come at maybe 50% and should be "conditioned." Hopefully the thread "Odyssey PC545 Battery Conditioning" will be helpful. It is a lengthy thread, but has a "best answer" post that may be the most concise on the "method."  There are discussions noted on the fact that "new" (check your date codes) Odyssey should be conditioned before installation.

 

 Be willing to observe, even record the "voltage sequence", and perform the discharge/charge cycle a few times with the correct amperage/voltages ("approved charger"), and your experience is likely to be stellar!   :nerd:  :luigi:   :thumbsup:

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6 hours ago, swooshdave said:

If I buy the battery don't they come charged to like 30%? Do I need to also buy an Odyssey specific charger to bring it up to full charge?

When I plug in V11 Sport to the Odyssey site it comes back with the PC925L which seems like overkill. Where did the recommendation for the PC545 come from?

https://www.odysseybattery.com/battery_search.aspx?type=MOT

 

It will be in your best interest to buy the Odyssey charger .

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44 minutes ago, docc said:

PC545 is the direct replacement for the "Spark500." Not sure what that PC 925L is (?)

Quote

If you go to Odyssey's site the PC925L is what they recommend for the V11 Sport.

So, yep, as new these batteries come at maybe 50% and should be "conditioned." Hopefully the thread "Odyssey PC545 Battery Conditioning" will be helpful. It is a lengthy thread, but has a "best answer" post that may be the most concise on the "method."  There are discussions noted on the fact that "new" (check your date codes) Odyssey should be conditioned before installation.

 

 Be willing to observe, even record the "voltage sequence", and perform the discharge/charge cycle a few times with the correct amperage/voltages ("approved charger"), and your experience is likely to be stellar!   :nerd:  :luigi:   :thumbsup:

So I need to buy the battery AND the charger?

This is on the Odyssey approved list:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BXL2BS4/?coliid=I7NYNVCZUC82O&colid=26Y5AVMGX9WC6&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I'm hoping that to bring a fresh battery up to charge that a "regular" charger will work.

I've got this 3A charger which I think will work. Isn't the 6A needed only to desulfate?

http://products.batterytender.com/Chargers/Battery-Tender.html

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40 minutes ago, gstallons said:

It will be in your best interest to buy the Odyssey charger .

I'm in the middle of an engine rebuild so play funds are tight.

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21 hours ago, swooshdave said:

I've got this 3A charger which I think will work. Isn't the 6A needed only to desulfate?

 

Nope. Odyssey is adamant that the battery will not charge with under 6 volts AMPS [edited/ thanks, Chuck!]. In my experience, low amp (under 6A)/ low voltage (under 14.2v) will look like they have charged the battery (static voltage comes up), but once a load is applied, it is back to where it started (or less).

"Float" or "trickle" charging is another matter, but if the PC545 is under 12.65v, Odyssey specifies a minimum of 6amps to bring the voltage to no more than 15.0v. There is no amperage maximum. So, you can do this manually with a "car charger" by watching the voltage and terminating the charge based on voltage.  "Pulsing" the AGM, as many chargers do in "desulfation mode" is not recommended for the AGM.

If it makes the max voltage within seconds or minutes, discharge the battery (clip on a light bulb), and repeat until the voltage stays stable (above 12.65v) for extended periods (days to weeks). 

[ 12.84v @ 77ºF/25ºC is a 100% AGM ]

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19 hours ago, docc said:

PC545 is the direct replacement for the "Spark500." Not sure what that PC 925L is (?)

 

So, yep, as new these batteries come at maybe 50% and should be "conditioned." Hopefully the thread "Odyssey PC545 Battery Conditioning" will be helpful. It is a lengthy thread, but has a "best answer" post that may be the most concise on the "method."  There are discussions noted on the fact that "new" (check your date codes) Odyssey should be conditioned before installation.

 

 Be willing to observe, even record the "voltage sequence", and perform the discharge/charge cycle a few times with the correct amperage/voltages ("approved charger"), and your experience is likely to be stellar!   :nerd:  :luigi:   :thumbsup:

The 925 does come back as a battery for some Guzzi's. I was actually able to fit it on my Daytona. But it was way bigger than the original battery, and the Daytona carried its battery (past tense) under where the passenger would sit. So it was a lot of weight up high and back. I really did like having a battery that powerful, it is almost a car battery. But it needs to be mounted somewhere lower, perhaps under the tranny. I have not given up on fitting that battery back on my Daytona,  and perhaps on at least one other Guzzi of mine. But it would never fit in the stock location of a V11 Sport.

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" 6 volts. "

6 Amps..

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2 hours ago, Chuck said:

" 6 volts. "

6 Amps..

Okay, I found my typo and fixed it. Thanks, :notworthy: Chuck!

 

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