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docc

rear bearings and brake

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10 hours ago, docc said:

Yessir. Just not sure why these bearings only went 600 miles while others have lasted 20,000-40,000 miles. The inner races of the suspect SKF do look "thin" and rather underbuilt. Perhaps, just enough not to tolerate the undersized spacer.

All of my spacers and bearings arrived yesterday, so I'm in the process of completing the analysis and staging the reassembly . . .

Good news: the replacement wheel bearing spacer is the correct 113 mm ! B)

Oh, ok docc, I skimmed through the original posts again but missed the only 600 mile life. That's very bad indeed.

Its always a worry when something unexplained like this happens. All you can do is assemble it all with the best engineering practice you can and monitor the results this time. Cant see why it shouldn't work out better than the original bearings with the correct spacer.

If you are really keen you can flip out the seals from the failed bearings and wash out any lubricant and debris and use a magnifying glass and look at the races and see where on the races  the wear and failure point is. Is it central to the race which would indicated the bearing has been overloaded or too tight in the bore or lacked lubrication or if the wear and failure indications is a little offset which would indicate lateral overloading from a short spacer. 

Ciao

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So, keep the centering collars? They are important, perhaps?

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3 minutes ago, docc said:

So, keep the centering collars? They are important, perhaps?

The collars on the spacer?

 

Ciao

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Yessir. You can see the (new) 113mm spacer still has them and my original 112mm spacer does not. It is fiddly to slip the axle through with the spacer loose, but very difficult to drift the bearings out with the spacer locked to the center.

The collars fit so loosely in the bore of the hub (3mm gap), I can't imagine they are needed. Perhaps they are an assembly expedient, only?

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3 minutes ago, docc said:

Yessir. You can see the 113mm spacer still has them (new) and my original 112mm spacer does not. It is fiddly to slip the axle through with the spacer loose, but very difficult to drift the bearings out with the spacer locked to the center.

I'd keep the the collars as you have found the spacer drops down and axle fitment is a pain. Some spacers have a notch ground on the face of one end so you can get a drift down the bore from the opposite end and get some purchase on the inner race for removal. I forget if the Guzzi has this or not but when I have them out I always grind another notch opposite the original if it has one or grind 2 notches for ease of bearing removal in the future. 

My rear spacer had a collar standard. Some spacers only have 1 collar and you can then lever the spacer over a little on the non collar end and get a better purchase on the inner race for drifting as well.  

 

Ciao

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My original (short) spacer has the two notches, but the new one does not. I suppose I can keep the collars and it will force me to get a proper bearing removal tool set. 

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The new "inner spacer" (the short one between the drive side wheel bearing and the reardrive carrier bearing) is ~0.002" shorter than my original. The outboard race for the needle cage (in the right side of the reardrive next to the swingarm) is ~0.001" longer than my original. I'm thinking these are within tolerance (?) and I'll install all the new parts I can.

IMG_8883.jpg

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17 minutes ago, docc said:

My original (short) spacer has the two notches, but the new one does not. I suppose I can keep the collars and it will force me to get a proper bearing removal tool set.  (Insert Waving Wrench Emoji here/ I am currently not privileged to use it, only the Bewildered Emoji :huh:)

Grind or rat tail file some notches on one end of the new one docc so you can get a narrow ended drift on the inner race. Even with the collars you can usually get enough radial movement on the spacer to help get the drift on the inner race. After you install one of the bearings drop the spacer in and check how it levels up with the bore end face on the other side. Remember the bearing will have a little lateral play to take into consideration.

 

Ciao 

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3 minutes ago, docc said:

The new "inner spacer" (the short one between the drive side wheel bearing and the reardrive carrier bearing) is 0.002" shorter than my original. The outboard race for the needle cage (in the right side of the reardrive next to the swingarm) is 0.001" longer than my original. I'm thinking these are within tolerance (?) and I'll install all the new parts I can.

IMG_8883.jpg

Looks fine docc. Fit up the new stuff as you said.

 

Ciao

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As I have said, the V11 has a busy rear axle.

L-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> R:

locknut-washer/swingarm/caliper carrier/brake side wheel bearing/wheel spacer/driveside wheel bearing/inner spacer/reardrive carrier bearing/reardrive/needle cage-race/right side swingarm/torque side of the axle

IMG_8888.jpg

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I've beat this next drum before, but here it comes again. :oldgit:

On our V11, the outboard needle cage and its inner race get neglected. It is trapped in the "nose" of the reardrive next the the right arm of the swingarm. It only rotates the arc of movement of the swingarm and does not "spin." Since it not exposed when the wheel is pulled, say for a tire change or brake service, it often goes unseen until it gets ugly. If moisture and wetness and nastiness is allowed to enter there (and it will), this will ruin the sealing on the crown wheel of your reardrive. Read: Very Bad. :bbblll:

Anytime the rear wheel comes off, for whatever reason, pull the axle far enough to service this critical part! Clean and liberally grease with waterproof grease (the needle cage, inner race, and cap washer). Every time.

Here is some more support for this encouragement:

L->R / lower row:

> 50,000 mile unserviced/ruined race from a northern US state that ruined the reardrive.

> 14,000 mile from coastal California, USA, that was rusted along with the needle cage. Even polished up with 600 grit, damage remains.

> My original 111,000 mile race with obvious indentations from the needles.

> New (and surprisingly smooth and shiny!) inner race.

IMG_8887.jpg

Grease that outboard reardrive junction with your swingarms, please!

 

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Thanks for that, Docc..:thumbsup:

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inner spacer 12.33 mm

outer needle race  18mm  looks newish     clueless on mileage:huh2:

rear wheel bearings feel good

think i'll put on a new tire and ride

andy

 

 

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I think we need a poll topic.... What do you torque your front and rear spindles to ?

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44 minutes ago, andy york said:

I think we need a poll topic.... What do you torque your front and rear spindles to ?

And from which side?

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