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Bigwig

Newbie needs shifting help

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First timer on here, so be gentle. I recently picked up a 2003 LeMans with Motratech foot controls installed. Low mileage and a beautiful bike. I bought this our of state and trailered it back, so I heard it run but never rode it. Seemed like an outstanding machine and a reputable seller. When I got it home, I took it to the dealer to have the stock pegs and levers installed. ( I never rode it with the Motratech bits on it.) Now I have problems on the upshifts. Not all or every time, and not always the same gear. But I'd say it does it 10% of the time. You pull in the clutch, bring the shifter up to the end of it's travel, and nothing is there. Seems more likely to do it at higher revs, but nothing excessive. Could be any gear above first, and quite random. My tech, who I believe is a very qualified guy but I don't know how many of these he's seen, has attempted to adjust the linkage twice and the issue persists. I could really use some input. Am I looking at transmission issues? This is doing a number on my new dream bike glow. 

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Since you are able to shift into all gears, it's most likely the linkage. Close to zero chance that you have transmission issues.

The Motratech foot controls probably required changing the geometry of the shift mechanism, so you need to go back to the original configuration and angle.

I don't have a photo of stock shift linkage, (and mine isn't stock anyway) but try Googling to find some images.

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There is also an eccentric adjuster that limits the gear selector throw, some more knowledgeable than me suggest not adjusting with the preselector installed. I personally have adjusted it very carefully, like 1/32 of a turn. It’s eccentric so try one way if it helps you can go a tiny bit further, if not go back the other way. Always mark where it was from the beginning so you can go back to square one.

Like JB I’m suspicious of the linkage too I just posted a pic of my linkage on another thread very recently. 

I’d start with the linkage personally.

You’ll get it!

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Welcome! Shifting gremlins are probably the number one issue with these awesome bikes. Nothing to feel bummed out about, it's par for the course and I'm pretty sure every V11 owner has had to fiddle with their shifting to a lesser or greater degree. This is a Moto Guzzi! Even though this is considered their first mostly successful attempt at a modern transmission, it will still always have a certain "agricultural" nature. You'll find lots of help here to get it as good as it can be. 

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welcome Bigwig. Congrats on the new LM. As stated, shifting "pains" are common with the bikes. Linkage tuning is usually all it takes to smooth it out like butter. Either external, with cleaning, lube, and adjustments, or (and) internal - the transmission shift pre-selector plate, which will most likely 'eventually' need a going through with an updated pre-selector spring, and some finessing of the arm, etc. Don't be shocked, all the answers are here on the forum.... someplace;)

start here ...

 

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Hi, Bigwig! You've come to the right place to get the most out of your wonderful V11!

The shifter is a real Rube Goldberg affair that dos take patience and proper fettling. Be sure the the connecting rod is adjusted to align the arms of the gearbox and the shfter parallel and all the fasteners are tight. Use the top hole in the shifter arm. See that the shifter does not strike the frame sideplate on the down stroke.

image.png

Also, the pivot bolt should be set where the is smooth rotation of the shifter, but no slop. There is a lock nut on the inboard of the subframe where the pivot bolt screws in. Mine is loose enough that I shim it with a thin washer.

IMG_2743.JPG

 

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Wow, I want to thank everyone who has responded to this so far. I'm studying each carefully, and glad to hear is sounds to be more of a fiddling issue than a major mechanical fix. Also thanks for the welcome! Looks like I've come to the right place!

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I wonder if it's too soon to suggest a Luck Phil x Chuck shifter plate upgrade, as shown in Docc photo above. Are there still any more available? Paging Chuck and/or Lucky Phil...

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25 minutes ago, sp838 said:

I wonder if it's too soon to suggest a Luck Phil x Chuck shifter plate upgrade, as shown in Docc photo above. Are there still any more available? Paging Chuck and/or Lucky Phil...

I would be inclined to say, "Yes, too soon" for a modification until the culprit(s) can be apprehended.  Then the LuckyPhil/Chook-made shift extender would be icing on the cake!

I should have mentioned to remove the pivot bolt (after taking off the lock nut on the inboard side) and wire brush the rust from it and give a good coat of waterproof grease. I have also used a "bottle" or bore brush to clean out where the pivot bolt goes through.

Finally, many have discovered improved shifting changing to a lube like RedLine Shockproof®.

We have seen some great outcomes with shift issues never going inside the gearbox or even pulling the shift plate.

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15 hours ago, Bigwig said:

First timer on here, so be gentle. I recently picked up a 2003 LeMans with Motratech foot controls installed. Low mileage and a beautiful bike. I bought this our of state and trailered it back, so I heard it run but never rode it. Seemed like an outstanding machine and a reputable seller. When I got it home, I took it to the dealer to have the stock pegs and levers installed. ( I never rode it with the Motratech bits on it.) Now I have problems on the upshifts. Not all or every time, and not always the same gear. But I'd say it does it 10% of the time. You pull in the clutch, bring the shifter up to the end of it's travel, and nothing is there. Seems more likely to do it at higher revs, but nothing excessive. Could be any gear above first, and quite random. My tech, who I believe is a very qualified guy but I don't know how many of these he's seen, has attempted to adjust the linkage twice and the issue persists. I could really use some input. Am I looking at transmission issues? This is doing a number on my new dream bike glow. 

Without trying to be condescending but just to get an idea of your riding experience how much riding time and on what do you have. I ask only because the Guzzi technique tends to require you deliberately load the lever before you pull the clutch and roll the throttle. I see a lot of riders these days when I'm just walking about and they are riding the suburbs with the gear changes all clunky and horrible because they dont load the lever. On a Japanese bike you wont have an issue it will just deliver a clunky shift but on a Guzzi 6 speed it will result in missed shifts. Its also important to note that on a Guzzi you shouldnt be using 5th or 6th gear around town, or possibly even 4th as well. Like a lot of bikes the gearbox isnt spinning fast enough to give clean shifts at these speeds for the upper gears and a big twin engine wont like it either. You seem to be able to shift a Japanese bike into 6th at 60 kph for the most part so if you are used to them then it can be a bit of a shock to have to concentrate on shifting when you go to a Guzzi. You may know this already and sorry if that's the case.   

Very important to load the lever on the up and down shifts for it to give a clean and reliable shift 99% of the time.

The major advantage of the extended shift lever is it requires more foot force or greater load on the shift lever (due to less leverage at the input arm) which when the clutch disengages the gearbox results in a reduced lever movement but also a faster action and cleaner shifts.

Ciao   

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Well, I've been riding for 38 years and this is my 9th bike and second Guzzi. I cut my teeth on a DT360, from then on it was a mix of Harley Sportsters and big twins, and I bought a Cali Custom in 2014. This is the first bike of mine with sporting riding position. That being said, I'm not ruling out technique as a factor, but I'm pretty certain that's not the core issue. I have experimented with approaches to technique, and it seems irrelevant of my efforts. Please, by 'load the lever', are you referring to having some force applied to the shifter lever before pulling in the clutch. Can you elaborate? Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. 

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8 hours ago, Bigwig said:

Well, I've been riding for 38 years and this is my 9th bike and second Guzzi. I cut my teeth on a DT360, from then on it was a mix of Harley Sportsters and big twins, and I bought a Cali Custom in 2014. This is the first bike of mine with sporting riding position. That being said, I'm not ruling out technique as a factor, but I'm pretty certain that's not the core issue. I have experimented with approaches to technique, and it seems irrelevant of my efforts. Please, by 'load the lever', are you referring to having some force applied to the shifter lever before pulling in the clutch. Can you elaborate? Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. 

Ok, cool its just nice to get an idea of the experience new people on the board have as it can help troubleshooting issues sometimes. Yes by load the lever I mean applying foot pressure and loading the lever before you pull the clutch. In effect you are loading up the gearbox dogs a fraction before you pull the clutch or roll off the throttle or both (if you do clutchless shifts) which means that when the load comes off due to roll off or disengaging the clutch the trans is already trying to select the next gear and the change is then instant and clean.

I see a lot of mainly cruizer riders that pull the clutch then push on the shift lever in that order and it results in a clunky, noisy,balky and on some bikes missed shift.

I rarely ride my bike around town so from second gear up I generally shift without the clutch but either way its clean and reliable. Generally a little slicker without the clutch.

Personally I'd attack the origins of the problem even if it means pulling the box apart. I'm about to pull one down so I can strip old paint and repaint the cases. I'll get you a measurement today on the sleeve. I just cant see why it would be too wide unless its a sleeve from another gearbox or maybe an MGS-01 or something or the gearbox is somehow incorrectly assembled or shimmed. I havent had one apart as yet so I'm not totally familiar with what mistakes you can make during assembly. Scuds had one apart maybe he can think of a reason.

Ciao       

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