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Mikko

Fuel Tank upgrade questions

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I purchased a used “chin pad-less” tank & internal fuel pump. Looking at the parts diagram the intake and feed connections look like plastic.

8337AECA-6C0F-4CA6-B078-0104B81C5229_zps

I don’t see anything listed for replacing these. Is there something in the aftermarket made out of metal?

I also noticed just the one filter. Am I correct in thinking that there is only one filter? I’m used to a “before the pump filter” and a “before the injectors filter”.. would seem to me, a good idea to at least add a 1-10 micron in-line filter going to the injectors. 

B78327AE-AC20-4D3F-B96D-35E3A4EE6E01_zps

Thanks! 

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There is just one filter. Memory fails me, but I *think* someone has jumped through some hoops to do metal fittings. Probably an act of desperation after they broke the stupid plastic ones.

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A little searching on WG found this:

Dukedesmo:
The CPC metal connectors are far better than the fragile plastic type but one thing to be aware of with them is the type of 'O' ring. As standard they supply them with a Nitrile 'O' ring which is not fuel resistant.


I fitted them to my Ducati 916 tank and they were fine for a year or so but the Nitrile rings swell in fuel and so those on the hose fitting split or leak - not a big problem as Viton 'O' rings are easily available, cheap and easy to change (in fact it's wise to change them regularly as it's easy to 'pinch' them, then they leak).

But the 'O' ring inside the tank fitting was also nitrile and when this swelled it cut off the fuel supply, leaving me stranded at the road side.

When I got the bike home it took me a while to figure out what was wrong as disconnecting/reconnecting the fittings made it work again (at least for a mile when it broke down again and I ended up nearly having a cardiac 'incident' pushing it home).

But to change the internal 'O' ring on the female fitting requires removal of the fitting from the tank which is a bit of a game due to the access and tapered threads on the fitting meaning they are tight.

Moral of the story is make sure the fittings (particularly the female) have Viton 'O' rings - CPC part number has the suffix 'V' if they are viton. or, if they don't have them in stock with Viton (they didn't when I contacted them) then order some Viton 'O' rings and change them before use. If in any doubt then change them anyway as swapping the 'O' ring in the tank fitting is a PITA if the fitting is in the tank.

The above info relates to a Ducati and so may not be relevant to Guzzi and I don't know if Guzzi use the same part? as there are NPT or BSP threads? but for info the NPT thread as used by Ducati has the following CPC part no.

CPC -  LCD10004V = Metal female with viton seal

The hose fitting is;

CPC - LCD23006V = Metal male with viton seal 

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Thanks..btw: what is wg? Oh I think you must mean wild guzzi? I don’t do too much interwebbing.. too many feeling to worry about. I like this place, smart people and I’ve learned a lot already. Those fittings look the business and if needed.. I’ll have the flange tapped to fit. I don’t like plastic.. especially in fuel supplies. Those fittings look skanky to say the least. For peace of mind, metal is moar good’er..

thank you very much for finding these!

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12 hours ago, Mikko said:

Thanks..btw: what is wg? Oh I think you must mean wild guzzi? I don’t do too much interwebbing.. too many feeling to worry about. I like this place, smart people and I’ve learned a lot already. Those fittings look the business and if needed.. I’ll have the flange tapped to fit. I don’t like plastic.. especially in fuel supplies. Those fittings look skanky to say the least. For peace of mind, metal is moar good’er..

thank you very much for finding these!

This forum rocks for V11S info. :thumbsup: Just the same, there are a lot of good people on WG, too. Between the two forums, I've managed to keep 17 various New, Old, Barn Find and Garage Queen Guzzis running. It's a sickness, I know.. but I can quit any time I want to..

Chuck, Deacon

Church of Guzzi

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So these couplings are meant to replace the red and white 90° plastic elbows? That would be very very nice... 

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wow, I had no idea these were replaceable... MGCycle has them, but that means replacing with metal parts might indeed be possible:

 

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5072

Funny how in the product description they mention the fact that Guzzi never listed these as individually replaceable parts  :bbblll:

 

These look like they snap in, not threaded, but that doesn't mean something couldn't be hacked...

Now wondering if the metal inlets where these elbows plug in have enough metal in them to be tapped for 1/4" NPT threads 🤔🤔🤔

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Been reading up on this, apparently Ford in europe has a car that uses these same connectors on their fuel rails, here is their part number for the red one: 1330328

white: 1072003

Aprilia also used these but apparently their part number is now obsolete.

Still very much interested in the possibility of installing those CPC disconnects. I have a spare pump with broken elbows, might have to take a look.

EDITED TO ADD: look what I found when searching for Aprilia fuel pump related info:

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=87220

Metal! Looks like they might fit, but requires drilling and tapping the sides of the inlets on the pump base for a little set screw... Not sure if ours protrude enough for this. 

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If the pump base is metal, and there is enough meat between the fittings.. it can be tapped and made to work. 

You could even make an adapter block that attaches to the base and then tap/fit whatever you wanted and it wouldn’t need to be very thick.

im trying to get this sorted out before the spine raid. Not sure when my stuff will be here.

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That's a pretty nice part... I'd be leery of the small differences though, our pump base plate has a thick gasket that the screws go through. This one is cut away around the screw hole "ears" with a thinner gasket inside the perimeter, and it looks to me like the distances aren't the same. If they have a friendly return policy it might be worth buying one to see if it mates up with the tank correctly...

As far as tapping the inlet holes for 1/4" NPT goes in order to use those CPC couplings, that's not looking so great. Just based on the dimension drawing of the metal elbows, they are 13mm in diameter:

ZT-GTE-FI-HUSKY_d.jpg

Hole size for 1/4" NPT is 7/16" which is 11mm. So not enough metal there to tap threads for the CPC disconnects. Will disassemble my extra pump to confirm one way or another. Right now these metal replacement elbows are looking to me like the best upgrade alternative, unless that billet pump base you posted turns out to be a correct fit. Which would be very nice, but also orders of magnitude more expensive: $84 for two alum. elbows vs ~ $450 (base plate plus pump guts) to solve the problem of the fragile plastic elbows. If my pump had failed and needed to be replaced entirely, that would be the best choice for sure, again provided it fits.

 

 

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On 8/11/2019 at 5:09 PM, sp838 said:

Been reading up on this, apparently Ford in europe has a car that uses these same connectors on their fuel rails, here is their part number for the red one: 1330328

white: 1072003

Aprilia also used these but apparently their part number is now obsolete.

Still very much interested in the possibility of installing those CPC disconnects. I have a spare pump with broken elbows, might have to take a look.

EDITED TO ADD: look what I found when searching for Aprilia fuel pump related info:

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=87220

Metal! Looks like they might fit, but requires drilling and tapping the sides of the inlets on the pump base for a little set screw... Not sure if ours protrude enough for this. 

It is likely the same pump assy.

It would be a good idea to get pics of both pumps and check .

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