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Meinolf's V11 BIN


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On 11/2/2021 at 2:23 PM, Lucky Phil said:

Nope, not the one I'm looking at. Here's the Delta image of the 2 maps, a std V11 Sport from 2000 and the Titanium 15M map. So a differences comparison between the 2. As you can see, variations are zero.

Ciao

 

Screenshot 2021-11-02 121810.png

Base map

Screenshot 2021-11-02 122425.png

Titanium

Screenshot 2021-11-02 122538.png

I read somewhere else that the TI map does not alter anything below 4000rpm. How does that explain the removal of the 2700-3100 flat spot or surging on a constant throttle. It annoyed the crap out of me. Installed the TI ECU and it disappeared. Mind you it also disabled the lambda being the earlier ECU. Maybe that helped?

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Must be hit and miss.  I finally got the Lonelec cables and checked my CO Trim it was properly set at 0

Uploaded Titanium map and no joy still bad hiccup around 3 k

On to the Meinolf bin next

That stumble is annoying as heck

 

 

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2 hours ago, NicoNZ said:

...2700-3100 flat spot or surging on a constant throttle. It annoyed the crap out of me... 

 

57 minutes ago, dbarb3 said:

...That stumble is annoying as heck...

I suspect that a new V11 did not have a 3k snort. @docc do you remember?

I believe that you should complete Docc's tune-up guide first before tweaking the ECU. TPS setting, timing sensor gap, cylinder synchronization, and slightly looser than book valve clearances are important.

 Decent Tune-up - How to... - Moto Guzzi V11LeMans.com Forum

Also look for signs of a worn timing chain tensioner affecting ignition timing. Point a timing light into the porthole in the bellhousing and watch for erratic movement of the timing mark at various revs.

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1 hour ago, MartyNZ said:

 

I suspect that a new V11 did not have a 3k snort. @docc do you remember?

I believe that you should complete Docc's tune-up guide first before tweaking the ECU. TPS setting, timing sensor gap, cylinder synchronization, and slightly looser than book valve clearances are important.

 Decent Tune-up - How to... - Moto Guzzi V11LeMans.com Forum

Also look for signs of a worn timing chain tensioner affecting ignition timing. Point a timing light into the porthole in the bellhousing and watch for erratic movement of the timing mark at various revs.

Ah, well, that was a minute ago . . . :huh:

I remember my Sport never liked anything under 4000 rpm. And I wanted it to lope at idle like a 351 Cleveland with big cam. She hated this idea, too. 1200 is more to her liking.

Over time (and wear, and numerous individual issues) the popping, hiccups, and "snort" have been a recurring theme. There have been, literally, a dozen contributors.  High ambient temperatures are especially aggravating.

FWIW, I remain the poster child for the factory 15M map. Yet, my tune-up interval is 5,000 miles/ 8,000 km. My plugs could really benefit from a 4,000 mile/ 6,400 km change with this level of internal wear. My Sport's "fussiness" gets notably better with every "tune-up."

If I could change one thing, it would be the ridiculous ignition advance from 2700-4000 rpm at very low throttle openings (as in "just riding along"). And the terrible rattle that can occur rolling on the throttle in that upper range. (Well, that's two things, I suppose)....

Messages%20Image(4016287376).png

There is just nothing "smooth" about the abrupt corners in that ignition advance map.

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58 minutes ago, MartyNZ said:
  3 hours ago, NicoNZ said:

...2700-3100 flat spot or surging on a constant throttle. It annoyed the crap out of me... 

59 minutes ago, MartyNZ said:
  1 hour ago, dbarb3 said:

...That stumble is annoying as heck...

...a properly informed 15RC dials both the stumble & surging on constant throttle out.

That’s the modern ECU’s raison d’ètre - the beauty of closed-loop adaptability.

Nothing to do with valve gaps - or Titanium maps - that’s all just looking for a black cat in a dark room that isn’t there!

Try it & see...

 

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4 hours ago, NicoNZ said:

I read somewhere else that the TI map does not alter anything below 4000rpm. How does that explain the removal of the 2700-3100 flat spot or surging on a constant throttle. It annoyed the crap out of me. Installed the TI ECU and it disappeared. Mind you it also disabled the lambda being the earlier ECU. Maybe that helped?

Not sure. My bike with the old engine would hiccup constantly sometimes and I couldn't make it do it at others. That's why it's a mystery I guess. LAMBDA? I wouldn't think so.

Ciao 

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3 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Not sure. My bike with the old engine would hiccup constantly sometimes and I couldn't make it do it at others. That's why it's a mystery I guess. LAMBDA? I wouldn't think so.

Ciao 

You LP - amongst others have tried everything & are still failing at pinning down the root cause.

Yet - because there was simply NO consensus on this English speaking forum (& others) frustrated, I looked further afield to research what the Italians were discussing on their forums years ago about the same problem. Nb., ‘years ago’.

They - via Ube’s Fiat research & Guzzi knowledge - found the cause for their bikes behavioural issues. The overwhelming single “fix” of many was the simple O2 sensor change. Go read their experience’s for yourself.

It simply allows the ECU to do its job better. All those issues were able to be adjusted & were in a nanosecond, subsequently dialled out by the now better performing ECU.

The previous slow oem LSH15 incurred the G.I.G.O. of the fuelling modulation by the ECU. Once that single sensor input into the ECU was speeded up  by the vastly  improved LSH24 cycle rate speed the ECU is infinitely able to adapt appropriately & adjust the fuelling more accurately - hence the surging, stumble, hiccup on constant throttle was able to be adjusted out of the system.

It’s not a problem that just affected V11’s alone - the same ‘surging, stumble, or hiccup on a constant throttle’ - call it what you like - occurred on the European smallblock Breva’s, Nevada’s & V7 Classic’s - as well as affecting various bigblock Bellagio’s, Breva’s, California’s, Griso’s etc.

LP you know a hell of a lot more engineering than myself - but on this I’m afraid your eyes are simply blinkered.

Why? We all have foibles I suppose. Disbelief at the simplicity?

If like me you ever trawl back over old posts - way back before Guzzidiag days - back when there were plenty of discussions about Power Commanders & Cliff’s MyECU & whether these would help get rid of the issues.

I read everything because I had the same issues, but now, I’m of the opinion it was all just blinded bulldust - the cure had simply been ‘lost in translation’ & didn’t make it over the pond because the Americans don’t have O2 sensors.

The 15RC simply moved the game on.

Ube & the Italian Guzzista knew all along. SimoneV11 - he knew!

So after all that... who’s going to disable their O2 sensor on their new V100 Mandello? Huh? 🤔 

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Speed of LSH24 input.

1E02EB0D-7130-42F4-BA52-979273DCD83D.jpeg
-> at optimum temperature of less than 600 °C the sensor responds in less than 50 ms.

The 15RC ECU’s subsequent fuel modulation response is even faster - much faster!

“Consider that the clock speed of some modern ECUs is 40 mHz; that is, the computer moves through 40 million switching states per second.

Keep guessing - but it’s no mystery.

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So, a 15M V11 would have to source a 15RC ECU, as well as installing the upgraded Lambda probe (where? In the crossover?), and then build or source the wiring to connect the sensor (Just one probe?) to the wiring harness to the mystery/unused two "bullet connectors" that we 15M-ers try to tuck away/ hide under the seat?

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I told a gent here about the lamba upgrade last year . He bought and installed it. Isn't it, wasn't it a run in procedure,, idling for some minutes, running under 3000rpm ++ He didn't do that, so no huge difference. Don't think it states something about running in on the lamba package,  how important is that ? :rasta:. WDIK, just sharing experienses.

Cheers Tom.

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59 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

I told a gent here about the lamba upgrade last year . He bought and installed it. Isn't it, wasn't it a run in procedure,, idling for some minutes, running under 3000rpm ++ He didn't do that, so no huge difference. Don't think it states something about running in on the lamba package,  how important is that ? :rasta:. WDIK, just sharing experienses.

Cheers Tom.

No Guzzi ecu from this era has any form of self learning except for models with an idle stepper motor and that's pretty basic looking for the correct idle speed after the batterys been disconnected or the stepper has been replaced. A GM ac delco PCM from 15 years ago?, another matter entirely. learning capability's with Long and short term trims etc. 

Ciao

   

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