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Guzzidiag AHHHHHH !


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Finally got around to trying to get into the ecu with guzzidiag to see if the neutral/light throttle backfiring around 3k rpm was due to the c/o setting as suggested.  Being a great, big, computer troglodyte, I had to have my little sister help me so I wouldn't get lost.  1st issue. The drop down for choosing the bike model doesn't show anything for a Coppa. (Of course) Seeing that all of the V11's except 2 use the 15M ecu I assumed (dangerous) that this is installed on my bike. Got to where you are asked to turn the ignition on and it wouldn't recognize the ignition being on. Tried several times to no avail .  Might anyone have an idea as to this problem ?
  When I first got this machine I installed a PClll along with new, go faster bits and pieces. And then had it set up on a dyno.  Out of curiosity, could the problem with the popping be due to an issue in the PClll set up and not in the direction I am heading?  FYI , The problem did not exist when it went into hibernation last fall. It seemed to crop up after this spring's tune up which has been performed several times now trying to stop the pop.

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G'day. I don't profess to be knowledgeable about these matters but from what I understand the PC111 was the only way to get around factory tuning issues back in the day? The ECU was sealed o

I have only theoretical knowledge of the PC's but I do know that anything that's an "add on" to an injection system is a last resort. I can understand how they came about and evolved but honestly once

You can download the map using 'Reader' turn off the lambda input and then change anything you like using Tunerpro and upload the finished result using 'Writer'. Power commanders are so last century D

30 minutes ago, cosmo said:

Another thought.  When instructed to turn the ignition on could it mean start the bike ?

nope. Make sure your Run ("kill") Switch stays in the Run position and use the Ignition Switch.

For the model selection, use your year range LeMans.

Simple enough to delete the PC III and see what changes.

So many little things can add up to give us that annoying "pop."

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I was editing my reply with more info while you posted.

Lots of simple things to work through, but good to get guzzidiag to connect so you can verify your CO Fuel Trim is zero.

Also, critical to baseline the TPS, with the throttle plate fully closed, at 157mV.

(Both of these steps are part of the "Decent Tune-up" and every other complete tuning method used.)

 

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Thanks. I have done the decent tune up 3 times, and will preform it again, just to make sure again its correct. And sprayed everything down seeking air leaks.
I've just seen a list of the ecu's used by the various Guzzi models.  It stated the 15M was used on the V11 until 2002.  2002 on, the 15RC was used. My scoot was built in 2004.  So I'm-a gonna try to pick a bike from the dropdown that uses the 15RC.  Perhaps that is what the issue is.  Wrong ecu.

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17 minutes ago, cosmo said:

Thanks. I have done the decent tune up 3 times, and will preform it again, just to make sure again its correct. And sprayed everything down seeking air leaks.
I've just seen a list of the ecu's used by the various Guzzi models.  It stated the 15M was used on the V11 until 2002.  2002 on, the 15RC was used. My scoot was built in 2004.  So I'm-a gonna try to pick a bike from the dropdown that uses the 15RC.  Perhaps that is what the issue is.  Wrong ecu.

Iirc your ECU should be marked or labeled 15M or 15RC; like all things guzzi, it was a running change, so dates and ser # info should always be confirmed on the bike. 

I think the 15M bikes have plain cross overs, but that the 15RC bikes should have a lambda sensor in the crossover.

Re your connection problems, subject to confirmation, but I think leaving your PC111 connected may cause problems.

I've read Pete and Beetle state many times, the best thing you can do is rip out the Power Commander and use guzzidiag/maps etc,,, 

I don't recall anyone recommending leaving whatever PC in place and using guzzidiag.

Fwiw good luck

Kelly

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2 hours ago, cosmo said:

Thanks. I have done the decent tune up 3 times, and will preform it again, just to make sure again its correct. And sprayed everything down seeking air leaks.
I've just seen a list of the ecu's used by the various Guzzi models.  It stated the 15M was used on the V11 until 2002.  2002 on, the 15RC was used. My scoot was built in 2004.  So I'm-a gonna try to pick a bike from the dropdown that uses the 15RC.  Perhaps that is what the issue is.  Wrong ecu.

If your bike has a lambda sensor it will have the 15rc. Thats the only practical difference between the RC and the M.

Ciao

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While the 15M is primitive enough that a decent outcome can be achieved with a PCIII the RC is going to present problems because unless the lambda input is switched off it doesn't matter what you do to the fuel mapping in the closed loop area, (Constant throttle, sub-4,000rpm up to about 1/3rd throttle.) the ecu will just trim out any fuel that has been added by the PC taking you back to exactly where you started. Outside of the closed loop area the map is almost certainly rich so if it's been set up correctly or unless there have been some seriously stupid modifications the PC should be pulling fuel out at most points rather than adding it.

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26 minutes ago, pete roper said:

While the 15M is primitive enough that a decent outcome can be achieved with a PCIII the RC is going to present problems because unless the lambda input is switched off it doesn't matter what you do to the fuel mapping in the closed loop area, (Constant throttle, sub-4,000rpm up to about 1/3rd throttle.) the ecu will just trim out any fuel that has been added by the PC taking you back to exactly where you started. Outside of the closed loop area the map is almost certainly rich so if it's been set up correctly or unless there have been some seriously stupid modifications the PC should be pulling fuel out at most points rather than adding it.

I have only theoretical knowledge of the PC's but I do know that anything that's an "add on" to an injection system is a last resort. I can understand how they came about and evolved but honestly once Guzzidia and Ducatidiag came along and esp if you started having running issues then that barnacle needs to go. 

My 1198 which is 11 years old has had from almost new a Michrotech ECU fitted which is laptop programmable and has switchable maps not to solve any running issues but because i wanted control over the engine operating system and I refused to use some crude basic add on that seemed more about profit than performance. 

Time to scrape off the barnacle and do it right.

Ciao 

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I do not have a Lambda sensor on the crossover which as memory serves me is F by F. W/Mistral cans and K&N filter.  So ,I am Ditching the PClll and I'll continue without it. Starting over.  I don't understand "closed loop" or much else about the mapping and am going to seek info on it to understand it better so I don't F#*&!  anything up. 
Thank you all for helping. Will post progress.

Lost the PCommander. Checked the cable download. Good. Still only getting to the point where the drop down asks "Ignition off for 10 sec, hit ok, turn on ignition, if you hear the fuel pump, close the program and try again. Again and again, many times. Well I continually hear the fuel pump each time.  (Does the program normally keep the fuel pump switched off?)  If I continue and hit ok, a timer starts on the bottom of the drop down (15 sec) for switching the ignition on. If I proceed and turn on the bike on I'll get a notification box stating ,"Switch ignition off."
       So its either not connecting to, or not "seeing" the ecu for some reason. I've tried mznyc's  suggestion of trying over and over to no avail.  At a loss as to the issue.  Perhaps I'll borrow a laptop w/windows to eliminate a problem with the laptop I'm using. Doubt its that, but grasping at straws. Think I'll take it for a spin and see what's changed in the way it runs with the stock map.

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G'day.

I don't profess to be knowledgeable about these matters but from what I understand the PC111 was the only way to get around factory tuning issues back in the day?

The ECU was sealed or blocked somehow and you couldn't over-ride it's parameters so it had to be fooled by whatever method ie PC111.If you wanted to retune it.

I know when I first got my bike, my mechanic was trying to get Magneti Marelli to let him access their ECU's without success so went the PC111 route.

Then he was able to alter the ECU via Tunerpro ( I think ) and now with GuzziDiag ( or a combination of both ) it would appear that it's a lot better / easier to alter the ECU to suit your mods.

I was also told that the PC111 has been known to cause issues on it's own?

However at the end of the day I can say that my bike has run better since I got rid of the PC111 but as I have mentioned there may have been other things that may have contributed to this.

Persist with it though mate as you'll love it once it's sorted.

I wonder sometimes if getting these buggers sorted is a rite of passage to see if we're worthy of ownership!

Cheers Guzzler

 

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I was sort of telling her a few things today, mumbling about Guzzidiag, and a little treattning . Marius are willing to help.
This afternoon, a few big gasp of breath and lap top's on, what the H. Went for a brew, later, later.
BUT see picture a few hours later,,, looks I'm on to something. Just saying Cosmo.
Cheers Tom
e4532dd435216bbb1e06e097a2cdfa8a.jpgadae0e99227abeb01a1f3ef32ca0eeb3.jpg

Sent fra min SM-A505FN via Tapatalk

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Missed the first picture.
Cheers Tom 46d29b8e6f3b757f719c948659c83613.jpg

Sent fra min SM-A505FN via Tapatalk

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