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Moto Guzzi bikes presented to the President of the Italian Republic, Sergio Mattarella


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^^^^

I understand and do not necessarily disagree.

That said, I view all such things through a "time, manner, & place" lens.

What I say around my supper table, fire pit, and the like to friends are not things I say in motorcycle forums outside of "BS" subtopics.  

I loathe PC and all its fellow travelers, and, regrettably, it seems to have driven speech underground.  Sad.

But I also don't view every venue as a soapbox for my pet rocks ... and I assure you that I have a rock garden of those.  :oldgit:

So, if interested in any of those or in sharing yours, you and others here are welcome to come visit me in the Moto Grappa at the top of Virginia sometime, sit on the porch a spell, and sip something pleasant while we rant on about the decline and fall of western civilization.  :drink:

1921 - 2021!

Bill

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1 hour ago, Bill Hagan said:

 

^^^^

I understand and do not necessarily disagree.

That said, I view all such things through a "time, manner, & place" lens.

What I say around my supper table, fire pit, and the like to friends are not things I say in motorcycle forums outside of "BS" subtopics.  

I loathe PC and all its fellow travelers, and, regrettably, it seems to have driven speech underground.  Sad.

But I also don't view every venue as a soapbox for my pet rocks ... and I assure you that I have a rock garden of those.  :oldgit:

So, if interested in any of those or in sharing yours, you and others here are welcome to come visit me in the Moto Grappa at the top of Virginia sometime, sit on the porch a spell, and sip something pleasant while we rant on about the decline and fall of western civilization.  :drink:

1921 - 2021!

Bill

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I suppose this PC stuff is relative depending on who's topic was canned and who complained?

:whistle:

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It’s my theory that we as a species have yet to come to terms in dealing with information overload. Considering knowledge used to be kept very close to the vest by those who pull the levers of power. A complete and now fully established religion developed predicated on a single individuals intimate knowledge that no one else was privy to.

The pendulum has not yet reached its arc, now we can be, and are inundated 24/7 by information. The ability or lack of, to determine what’s wheat and what’s chaff is what needs to be settled.

In any population, a percentage will posses more intelligence and they will cater to the ones who are not as gifted. That cascades into every level of social interaction so readily evident in forums like this, Twitter Facebook et al.

Free speech was and is a bedrock principle on which this Country was founded. That comes with the tact understanding that you or I may not agree. Dissent and the open exchange of ideas is how we become a more whole and just society.

As we are Human and prone to malice, that has been utilized in today’s hyper saturated communications orgy currently going non stop. Propaganda is what we should all flatly show zero tolerance towards. Appeasement will never be looked upon with the grace in which it was given, but in fact as a sign of weakness.

*steps off the soap box* 

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2 hours ago, LowRyter said:

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I suppose this PC stuff is relative depending on who's topic was canned and who complained?

:whistle:

 

I'm thinking that if we all "don't necessarily disagree" enough, maybe we'll soon all think the same.

My way, of course.  :grin:

As so much of what we all "think" is often less cognitive than that, all of this reminds me of ...

What Was I Thinkin'   :D

Bill

 

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1 hour ago, Mikko said:

It’s my theory that we as a species have yet to come to terms in dealing with information overload. Considering knowledge used to be kept very close to the vest by those who pull the levers of power. A complete and now fully established religion developed predicated on a single individuals intimate knowledge that no one else was privy to.

The pendulum has not yet reached its arc, now we can be, and are inundated 24/7 by information. The ability or lack of, to determine what’s wheat and what’s chaff is what needs to be settled.

In any population, a percentage will posses more intelligence and they will cater to the ones who are not as gifted. That cascades into every level of social interaction so readily evident in forums like this, Twitter Facebook et al.

Free speech was and is a bedrock principle on which this Country was founded. That comes with the tact understanding that you or I may not agree. Dissent and the open exchange of ideas is how we become a more whole and just society.

As we are Human and prone to malice, that has been utilized in today’s hyper saturated communications orgy currently going non stop. Propaganda is what we should all flatly show zero tolerance towards. Appeasement will never be looked upon with the grace in which it was given, but in fact as a sign of weakness.

*steps off the soap box* 

There was an interesting book a few years ago called "Future Shock" that fits well within the idea of "info overload".

As for protected speech, I suppose lies and propaganda are fair game but like liable and slander, there are consequences and remedies.  It just gets worse when bad intent is magnified on social and mass media.    Patrick Moynihan said that everyone has right to his own opinion but not to his own facts.  

And so long as I'm on the soapbox, omission can be powerful too.  Growing up in Oklahoma, there was never a mention of the Tulsa race massacre. I was in my 40s before I ever knew about it.  Something so important and so awful, killing and affecting so many people, families and an wiping out and entire community, something I never knew even after studying "official Oklahoma State History".   Nope, it wasn't in the book.  Nothing about it.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

"Not disagreeing" is sorta a double negative for sneaky folks.  B)

............. and prevalent among civil servants and gov't workers. 

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1 hour ago, LowRyter said:

............. and prevalent among civil servants and gov't workers. 

... and, I would hope, too, among courteous and thoughtful folks of all sorts.

I count myself as among those, and thus find no shame or "sneakiness" in that.  YMMV and, seemingly, does.  Ces't la vie, just not my vie.

I am, BTW, done with this thread as I view the horse beaten to death, butchered, and packed for resale.  :lol:

Best,

Bill

 

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3 hours ago, Mikko said:

Propaganda is what we should all flatly show zero tolerance towards.

Hey gents, looks like we missed an opportunity to talk about how V85s will be escorting the president of Italy. 

But gosh, in its place we get to consider epistemology, which is also fun. A lot of propaganda is an attempt to control what people will accept as factual. For example, the omission of violence from history books that LowRyter mentioned. In this case, the history book is propaganda because it only tells the "nice" parts of the story. Students in California and Texas get different versions of the same textbooks, which plants the seeds of idealogical division in our youth. Here's a link to a NY Times article that shows some of the key differences in the textbooks. What state is guilty of propaganda - or are both guilty?

Information overload presents special challenges to epistemology. None of us have the time or resources to fact-check everything we hear or see, so we have to decide who we believe will tell us the truth. 

Will governments lie about the nature of a disease, the occurrence of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, or genocide committed against indigenous people in order to take their land? I say yes to all... and could add more topics. Will media outlets lie (including lies of omission) in order to report on events in ways that please audiences and advertisers? (I consider that a rhetorical question).

Where do you go for "truth" and who do you trust to provide you with information that can credibly support a justifiable belief?  Everything seems to polarized that I hardly know where to go anymore, but that's why I still subscribe to The Economist, which I trust to openly disclose the evidence they use to justify their claims. 

Fun case in point... last weeks cover said "10 Million Reasons to Vaccinate the World."  I showed it to my 17 year old daughter, who plans to study journalism and marketing. She said "That sounds like hyperbole to me... but since it's The Economist, it's probably a population thing." Article at this link if you want to read it.

In my opinion, the only way to show zero tolerance against propaganda of all sorts is to be informed with facts, while remaining open to considering the possible meanings or implications of those facts.

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