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Emergency on long trip: any advice on bike randomly shutting down?


jetboy
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4 hours ago, Chuck said:

My bet is on the phase sensor, too. It certainly can't hurt to put fresh gas in it, though, although didn't you have this problem before the trip?

This behaviour sounds exactly like mine did. Only happened when the bike was hot, eventually traced back the problem to the phase sensor. A non-oil compatible o-ring underneath it had swollen, causing the mounting plate to bend and the phase sensor move away from the phonic wheel causing these issues. A new o-ring did the trick in my case.

Not saying in your case it is the o-ring, but the phase sensor explains the behaviour very well.

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could be so many things I guess.  I am waiting to go into town and get some fresh gas-  I think if that is not it.. then I can't do much more here.  

this morning-  as cold as you want-  it barely got started, then got about 1/4 mile and conked out.  I just left it there and did not push it back this time.  

 

I had hoped it had just enough to get into town and get some gas but no go.  

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Your bike has the external pump. So even if you need to change the fuel filter, it isn’t a terrible job. Drain out the fuel, try a bottle of Heet. That’s a drying agent. Fill it with the best they got.  Then give her a good ‘Ol Fashioned Italian Tune Up!!

BTW: did you check the side stand switch? 

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15 hours ago, jetboy said:

Meanwhile, I think I may have found it.  

the timing sensor cable must have been too close to the engine, the rubber has two burn marks in it, making divots.  I don't see any wires but it could have been enough to fry them.    I may take it out and see if I can repair it. 

 

I'm not familiar with this phase sensor that other owners with sage minds have id'd as a probable cause, (I'll have to find out where it is, lol) but is this the same part you are describing a/m ?

 

From the description of your sensor it sounds like this o ring collapsing underneath may be why it is now too close to the engine, if it has moved so much that the wires are touching on the outside, is the sensor touching the contact on the inside, shorting out? If it needs an air gap to run it won't.

If all of the above makes sense, a simple mcgyver shim job may get you mobile, fwiw idk good luck

ps zip ties, water bottle, juice jug etc all make good shims if needed.

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The phase/timing sensor is located at the top/left of the timing chest forward of the left cylinder. Its spacer is a metal shim under the hold-down flange. It is not spaced by the O-ring (although Tinus89's swelled O-ring interfered with his.

IMG_0302.JPG

@jetboy, does your Sport still have the electric petcock? If so, pull back the rubber boot and inspect the electrical connections. Those wires have been known to break causing a fuel starvation.

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thanks all!  I got a bit and its on the side of the road, I did drain the tank as much as possible, tried new gas with some similar stuff to Heet (could not find heet).  And it started to rain... so.  

at this point I have my brother coming down to pick me up!    I can get it up to oregon and get it into a shop where I can take it apart properly.  I am afraid doing any more roadside "maintenance" may just make things harder to fix later.  

 

Good news:  Now it does not go AT ALL.  and is being very consistant in how it acts unlike before.  SO it might help find the cuprit unlike when I had to ride it 4 hours before it happened.  

 

Now:  Starts up, idles fine, give it gas and it goes up to 2k if I take it slow but above that it drops rpm, revs up, drops, revs up drops, 1/2 second each.  I can peg the gas (I was doing so trying to flush out with the cleaner and new gas) and it Revs up to 5k then dopts, 5k, drops.  same pattern.    Does this every time now.  putting it in gear and trying to ride it.. it just dies as the rpms bottom out.  

otherwise it will sit and idle just fine seemingly forever.  

 

 

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46 minutes ago, docc said:

The phase/timing sensor is located at the top/left of the timing chest forward of the left cylinder. Its spacer is a metal shim under the hold-down flange. It is not spaced by the O-ring (although Tinus89's swelled O-ring interfered with his.

IMG_0302.JPG

@jetboy, does your Sport still have the electric petcock? If so, pull back the rubber boot and inspect the electrical connections. Those wires have been known to break causing a fuel starvation.

it does and I inspected them.. they look fine.  but they could be a problem for sure.  on the list to do a better job once I get it to the shop.  anything come to your collective minds about things I would need to order vs just make work?  I only have a limited time in oregon to see if I can fix it so probably need to order now and express it.  

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ECM connection? I’d pull it and spray it with contact cleaner. Check the ground going to it also. My Centauro ran like crap backfiring and all that business when I got her home. I pulled the connections to everything I could reasonably get at. Cleaned everything up and dumped about 3 gallons of 110 In it. Ran it like it like it insulted my momma... she purrs like a angry kitten now.

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Now:  Starts up, idles fine, give it gas and it goes up to 2k if I take it slow but above that it drops rpm, revs up, drops, revs up drops, 1/2 second each.  I can peg the gas (I was doing so trying to flush out with the cleaner and new gas) and it Revs up to 5k then dopts, 5k, drops.  same pattern.    Does this every time now.  putting it in gear and trying to ride it.. it just dies as the rpms bottom out.  

Phase sensor. I'm betting a dollar, now..:oldgit::rasta:

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the phase sensor gap is quite sensitive. when you get it out and see the shim thickness (maybe more than one) you'll understand how important the correct gap is. There are 7 shim sizes available to use. I pulled mine to stop it leaking and replaced the O ring with a "similar" one and the bike wouldn't start. I then replaced it with the old one using a 'touch' of 1194 sealant. It worked fine and did not leak anymore. The base plate of the sensor is easily bent with too much tightening as I discovered. I don't know how to set the gap, I just got lucky and got it back to spec.

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OK!  it stopped raining and I went out and removed the phase sensor, cleaned it.. and indeed, that oring was all messed up.  So I removed the ring.. it was chwed up and expanded etc.. no good.  

Cleaned the mating surface as best I could.. put it back in.. and VOLA!  the bike works!  

Now it has done this before... so not sure if its just back to its intermitant "runs Great!  then dies in a few miles- or its actually now set correctly.  

My brother is nearly here so I may try and ride up and he will follow and see how far I get.    NO oring but a bit of oil leakage I can deal with at this point.  

 

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it may still not be related at all- as it sometimes for no reason jsut does work for a while.  but fingers crossed that is the issue identified- and partially abated.  

burned the heck out of myself getting to it though.  

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It might well be the phase sensor others have suggested but it could be just a simple electrical fault. I would hot wire from the battery to the ECU, that will tell you one way or the other.

The phase sensor is a very simple device, just a coil wound over a small magnet but it's absolutely vital, a good idea to carry one on a trip because there isn't work around that I know of.

 Sorry I don't seem to be able to post a link here but basically you need to be able to liven up fuse 8, the petcock fuse, that will back feed the ECU relay and so turn on the ECU. Be warned this will bypass the ignition switch, side stand switch and kill switch but that beats being stuck on the road.

An alternative is reading the Voltage at fuse 8 with the key On, it should be alive, if not it's one of the 3 switches I listed above.

I had a light on fuse 8, Docc named it the Go Winkie light.

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Multimeter will tell you, shoud read 580 - 650 ohm I think. Phase sensor coud work fine cold, but dead when hot, easy to check.

Cheers Tom

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