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I have heard it explained many times that Guzzi V Twins are somewhat inspired by automotive practice...


VtwinStorm

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8 hours ago, Chris Wilson said:

How does the Chrysler head pictured on the right operate when the exhaust valve fouls the head seal?

I know that the claim will be ' bad camera angle' be jeez that is close!

Not sure but what you're referring to is the inlet valve. Hemi heads are pretty poor for combustion efficiency with their orange peel shape with any sort of decent compression pistons and so lots of ignition lead hence why the modern 4 valve narrow angled valve head with tumble scavenging instead of the swirl scavenging totally eclipsed it about 40 years ago. Everything has its day and the Hemi design lasted for nearly 100 years.

Ciao

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On 10/3/2021 at 10:24 AM, Chuck said:

(Settling around the campfire, tamping corncob pipe..) Reminds me of my old friend Bill, that told me of a rescue operation of a DC3 in Mexico. The electrical system was inop, so they knotted a big rope, wound it around the prop shaft, put a bunch of Mexicans on the end, and started pulling.

Dang if it didn't start, but the rope didn't come off, and the knot was hammering the side of the fuselage. :grin: Started the second one the same way, and flew it out.

Bill is *quite* a character.. need I say? and has had some adventures in his 97 (!) years.

As an apprentice Chuck, I worked on DC4's and I seem to recall an old tradesman telling me that the process you describe was actually an official Douglas manual procedure for the DC3.

Edit.......http://www.douglasdc3.com/prop/prop.htm

Ciao

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7 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Not sure but what you're referring to is the inlet valve. Hemi heads are pretty poor for combustion efficiency with their orange peel shape with any sort of decent compression pistons and so lots of ignition lead hence why the modern 4 valve narrow angled valve head with tumble scavenging instead of the swirl scavenging totally eclipsed it about 40 years ago. Everything has its day and the Hemi design lasted for nearly 100 years.

Ciao

Hi Phil, yes the inlet valve, it's extremely close to the head gasket area.

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EF10005C-1FA5-4827-940C-4DCDBEE117B6.jpeg
Seems somebody might’ve had a crack!

I’ve recently been getting into some YouTube pulling vids - hilarious!

But am seriously flabbergasted how those V-twin Kohler puller enthusiasts are getting such high torque / horsepower outta their garden tractors... & they sure as hell don’t get a lot of cooling airflow flowing over their cylinders compared to Guzzi bikes.

Even read a Peter Horvath interview claiming only 130hp on his 2 valve endurance bike.

I’m really curious as to how those Kohler’s can be hotted up so phenomenally!

I’d like to understand the secrets of their automotive practice...

Go figure! 🤷‍♂️

 

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On 10/3/2021 at 12:24 PM, Chuck said:

(Settling around the campfire, tamping corncob pipe..) Reminds me of my old friend Bill, that told me of a rescue operation of a DC3 in Mexico. The electrical system was inop, so they knotted a big rope, wound it around the prop shaft, put a bunch of Mexicans on the end, and started pulling.

Dang if it didn't start, but the rope didn't come off, and the knot was hammering the side of the fuselage. :grin: Started the second one the same way, and flew it out.

Bill is *quite* a character.. need I say? and has had some adventures in his 97 (!) years.

 

On 10/6/2021 at 5:03 PM, Lucky Phil said:

As an apprentice Chuck, I worked on DC4's and I seem to recall an old tradesman telling me that the process you describe was actually an official Douglas manual procedure for the DC3.

Edit.......http://www.douglasdc3.com/prop/prop.htm

Ciao

I remember seeing the manual showing a similar rope start process for a Bristol 170 years ago. It described canvas prop tip socks on a rope to be connected to a Land Rover. The engine is a 2000 hp Bristol Hercules 734 high compression sleeve valve radial engine, and the chances of something going wrong must be high. Here is a normal (ish) start for that engine  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXDw_670JJk

The Land Rover was probably specified because:

a. it is a British vehicle for a British plane, and

b. if the rope tangles in the prop, the aluminum Land Rover body wouldn't damage the prop so much as it gets reeled in.    

Here is a video of an Embraer 202 started by a pull rope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecosb5mSDwo

  

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21 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

 

I remember seeing the manual showing a similar rope start process for a Bristol 170 years ago. It described canvas prop tip socks on a rope to be connected to a Land Rover. The engine is a 2000 hp Bristol Hercules 734 high compression sleeve valve radial engine, and the chances of something going wrong must be high. Here is a normal (ish) start for that engine  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXDw_670JJk

The Land Rover was probably specified because:

a. it is a British vehicle for a British plane, and

b. if the rope tangles in the prop, the aluminum Land Rover body wouldn't damage the prop so much as it gets reeled in.    

Here is a video of an Embraer 202 started by a pull rope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecosb5mSDwo

  

The first aircraft I can ever remember seeing was a Bristol Freighter. My grandfather who was an aircraft engineer also took me to the airport when I was 3 years old. We were on the tarmac and close up to it. Not sure why we were there, I'm sure it wasn't just so I could see an aeroplane. The sleeve valve engines had less moving parts than a poppet valve engine as I recall. Interestingly I remember a warning that you should never get amateurs to pull a radial through before starting, it takes a knowledgeable experienced person/people to tell the difference between normal compression rise and a hydrolocked cylinder and it's quite possible and not uncommon to pull them through the lock and bend a rod. Better to bump it through on the starter and let the starter clutch protect the engine. The other big no, no is when a lock is detected never ever rotate the engine backwards thinking you'll clear it that way. It just dumps the oil back into the inlet and bends the rod or blows the cylinder off when it fires on the other cylinders on the start. If it's got a lock then it's tools out and pull the plugs and drain the lower cylinders.

Ciao   

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  • 3 months later...

I'm not sure when the American V8 started their basic design, but I just watched this video that had been posted over on WG. The basic guzzi engine, drive shaft design has been around a lot longer than I thought. fwiw

 

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13 minutes ago, 80CX100 said:

I'm not sure when the American V8 started their basic design, but I just watched this video that had been posted over on WG. The basic guzzi engine, drive shaft design has been around a lot longer than I thought. fwiw

 

Too cool! Re-posted on this "Origins of the Moto Guzzi V-twin" thread:

 

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On 10/7/2021 at 4:22 AM, MartyNZ said:

 

I remember seeing the manual showing a similar rope start process for a Bristol 170 years ago. It described canvas prop tip socks on a rope to be connected to a Land Rover. The engine is a 2000 hp Bristol Hercules 734 high compression sleeve valve radial engine, and the chances of something going wrong must be high. Here is a normal (ish) start for that engine  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXDw_670JJk

The Land Rover was probably specified because:

a. it is a British vehicle for a British plane, and

b. if the rope tangles in the prop, the aluminum Land Rover body wouldn't damage the prop so much as it gets reeled in.    

Here is a video of an Embraer 202 started by a pull rope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecosb5mSDwo

  

wound up like a top

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7 hours ago, billgreenman1 said:

Didn't Glenn Curtis (aviation pioneer and general speed freak) strap a v8 onto barely a  bicycle frame and get a speed record? Again the aviation connection...🤔

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2021/10/how-aviation-pioneer-glenn-curtiss-set-a-136-mph-land-speed-record-with-his-v8-powered-motorcycle/

" All I could see was a streak of beach with wild surf on one side, sand hills on the other and a black spot where the crowd was. The machine set up a terrific and inexplicable vibration; it was so great that it did not create wholly comforting thoughts.”

One of my heros.. :oldgit: Really good with engines. If the Wright bros. had let them be their engine guy.. oh, well, doesn't matter.

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