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6-speed false neutral


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My 2000 v11 s has developed an annoying habit of offering me thin air in place of the next gear. Of course , at first I thought it was just me. Then MGNA directed me to the adjuster for the shift lever throw. You know how it is. You adjust something and think. "there, isn't that better!" then a few miles down the road it does it again! The archives show alot of discussion of return springs. Mine's never stuck ( I hope it didn't hear me say that!),

but I/m finding it'll miss a gear if I shift in rapid succession. Makes me think "retrn spring."

Has there been a new and improved return spring fitted to the later models? Can the shift throw be adjusted to finally cure this ill? Stay tuned sport fans!

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My '00 V11S was never known to have the return spring problem that plagued the '02 models. But it IS easy to get false neutrals if you shift it poorly. Though a very smooth shifter, it does have a long throw and has vague "feel". You don't feel it actually click, or "clunk" as older Guzzi's did, into gear. I moved my linkage to the shortest throw and wondered if it would increase the effort rquired to shift it. Throw was shortened and I can't detect that it needs increased effort to shift. That helped a bit.

So on my bike, not moving the shift lever smartly and fully during a shift will get you a false neutral.

 

I have found that if I wear my tennis shoes to ride the bike, their soft tops prevent me from pressing the upshifts positively. My upward effort results in a smushed shoe and a poor upshift. Yes. I know I shouldn't wear tennis shoes when riding. No protection from them. But I can't see changing just to run up the street to go to the bank! So if I wear tennis shoes, I often experience false neutrals. Conversley (Converse Tennis shoes, get it ?? :doh: ), if I wear my heavy leather boots to go riding in, it's rare to experience false neutrals. If I firmly move that shift lever all the way, it always goes smoothly into the next gear.

 

I don't know if this will help you in your situation. But if you are wearing soft footwear, it could be adding to the problem.

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Rich,

When you shorten the throw- you do this by moving the linkage to the top

position on the shift lever? Or is it the hole closer in to the shift lever?

I'm riding in Alpinstar Strada boots. I had some Diadora which very cool

( as in stylish) but shifting was really vague so I know what your saying is true.

Believe me , I keep hammering my shift technique thinking that must be it. This all started at 16500 (always the sweetest, most perfect shifts before) after getting the v11 back from 7 weeks at the dealer which entailed changing the trans cases for a leak . Appararently a crack at the top mounting web. Both the dealer and MGNA suggested I had fallen out of familiarity with the bike . But now after 3000 more miles and concentrating on the event it still crops up constantly.

Maybe changing that link position will be 'it.' I've had it in the top pos'n thiking that would give me more leverage.

Thanks for your help! Look well ahead, docc

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Docc,

 

My 2000 V11S always had false neutrals, mainly going into 3rd and 4th gears. I missed shifts when shifting hard or easy so I know it is in the trans. Most riders have a problem going from 1st to 2nd on other bikes. Anyway after taking my bike to the dealer the 2nd time for the transmission oil leaks they put a dye into the trans oil so that they could find the leak. Upon road testing the bike, the trans got stuck in 3rd gear. It would not shift out of it. Then the bike came out of 3rd and would not go into any gear. The trans came out and apart, the findings were that 3rd gear came apart in three pieces and wiped out the rest of the trans. That was three months ago and I am still waiting for the parts for the trans, I would think that a new trans would correct all the problems

:angry:

 

Mike

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Last week when I had the starter out for inspection I greased the gearchange pivot bolt and the two 90 degree knuckles.

 

This has improved the shift and I have had no false neutrals since.

 

Its worth a try and costs about 5 cents worth of grease and maybe 2 hours labo(u)r maximum.

 

**warning** before going near the starter, disconnect the BATTERY.

 

Have a good one,

 

John

 

B)

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I guess we should not be too amazed (annoyed but not amazed): Guzzi builds its first new gearbox in three decades and we have to help sort it out.
I'll sure try the grease, continuing to adjust all the adjustments and hope for the best. There's 19500 on the bike now with warranty until August.
I worry that replacing the box will just give me the same problems two years later out of warranty. Catch 22.
Cycle World said their " shift quality degraded' leading to changing their gear sets. Does anyone know - is this the problem they were having?
They said something about improper heat treatment on the gears.
Hey, but when this bike's on..... she's like that fussy girl that once you get her on the dance floor - it's magic!!

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Well the small rant must of helped. :lol: I got a call from the dealer at 3:00PM and picked up my bike at 4:30 PM. Shifts like a dream. I need to learn how to ride her all over again, its been a long three months! Sure is nice having a real V twin between my legs again.

 

Mike

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Mike,

Here's wishing the perfect weather , perfect roads to indulge in your reunion. Looks kike 3 mo is a standard service period for the 6-speed.

These bike's are a sweet, sweet ride, yes?

BELISSIMO!! docc

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Last week when I had the starter out for inspection I greased the gearchange pivot bolt and the two 90 degree knuckles.

 

This has improved the shift and I have had no false neutrals since.

 

Its worth a try and costs about 5 cents worth of grease and maybe 2 hours labo(u)r maximum.

 

**warning** before going near the starter, disconnect the BATTERY.

 

Have a good one,

 

John 

 

    B)

You do not need to take out the starter to disassemble shifting linkage.

 

All you need is to disconnect gearbox control lever from shifting shaft going into transmission first. Then you unscrew and remove the whole pivot bolt which head you see on your side plate jut beside the peg paying attention to the opposite end nut with the washer.

 

Then remove THE WHOLE shifting assembly with pedal etc. from the bike. Then you can clean and grease if you want and install back.

 

All that procedure is well described in your Shop Manual Chapter 2 Section G. Takes no more then 15 min if you did it before.

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Congrats on getting it fixed!

I moved my linkage connector from the outmost to the innermost mounting hole to shorten the throw. While I was there I did disassemble and grease the pivot bolt. I'd forgotten about that! I put a drop of light machine oil in the ball pivots too. I tend to be an anal mechanic.

My choice of footwear seems to dictate how well my transmission works. Leather bbots are the way to go for safety as well as good shifting!

I started using moly in the tansmission oil after break-in as well. That improved the feel of the transmission too as it did on all my older Guzzi's.

When I last tore down my rear drive to grease everything, I found the factory had assembled everything dry as far as pivot bolts on the linkages go. I took it down further this time than when I built/prepped the bike to begin with. All those bolts were dry and beginning to corrode. I used the same #2 lithium grease on them that must be used in the universals.

 

I believe Guzzi's should be looked at as "kit bikes". They get assembled by fools as a courtesy to ensure that all the pieces of the "kit" are there. It then becomes the owners responsibility to tear the machine completely apart to inspect and then re-assemble the bike properly! Sadly, my opinion of Guzzi factory build quality is that is still only one step ahead of what I had in my 1995 Ural. The newest Urals come from the factory just about ready to use. I wish Guzzi had assemblers as good as Russia uses! :doh:

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What , is there no Burgerking in Mandello? So the people we'd have working the drive thru here assembled my sport over there ? Painful!

I agree with this approach to sorting these bikes. Remove, clean, lube, replace.(Zen and the Art....) The bikes keep getting better and better

(well, usually!) Well fettled, as they say.

Imeasured the shift trhrow with the bolt in different positions . The result surprised me a little. The closer hole is the longer throw. But not by much.

Th throw in the upper hole is 4 cm. At the lower(closer ) is 4.5 cm . Not much , but, hey, I switched mine to the closer (more leverage ) and will hope for the best.

Now if the rain would just quit we could ride!(fettle-fettle-fettle, doesn't anybody ride anymore?)

Look well ahead, docc

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Docc,

 

I put 120 miles on the bike today, it shifted flawless! :bier: On the downside, my trans still leaks oil . :doh: This is the second time in for the leak, is it possible that I have a crack in the upper web also?

 

Here goes another 3 months in the shop. The wife reminded me that I had bought an extended warrantee, go thinking on my part! :thumbsup:

 

Mike with a 90 weight smell

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Mike,

Where's the drip showing up? Even after my dealer buttoned up my new cases mine still dripped at the side case on the left. Make sure the two crush washers are good on the shift throw adjuster just in front of the input shaft for the shifter .

Also there are the two notoriuos shafts that pentrate the case. one is visible below the starter. The upper one requires moving the starter out of the way. I've sealed mine with some good high temp RTV after cleaning them thoroughly with q-tips and solvent. Runs dry now ( like, first time ever). Don't know how long it will last but I'll keep you posted.

Look well ahead, docc

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Hi Docc,

 

I really have two leaks from the transmission. One is from behind the starter as you described, it appears to be coming from a pressed in shaft above the starter. RTV will fix it, but I would rather have the cover replaced.

The other leak is from the rear of the transmission where the rear cover and plate bolt to the main trans case. This leak drips down on my Stuchi crossover and gives a pleasent 90 weight ordor that only the Harley guys could love. :grin:

 

I don't blame the shop for the repair or even Guzzi and I am not really upset with anyone, I just want it fixed before the warrantee is up (though they need to get the parts issue straightened out), I am an Automotive tech. by trade and understand how hard it is to find leaks. It has to be a case problem since resealing it does not fix it. The bike was cleaned by the shop and road tested after the repair. I road it home and it was still dry and after my 120 mile ride today, I had a large amount of oil on the rear of the trans and crossover once again. I am not just talking about a little weep or seep (I'm not anal) :not: , It is really a leak. :thumbsup:

 

Mike wanting to ride!

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