luhbo Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 You know, I read all this and look at these charts, and think to myself that if I need to get a fix of bike fettling, I'll buy a nice classic with carburettors, ignition you can set by twiddling the points, vacuum and centrifugal advance etc. Simple and satisfying. It seems in the modern world, you have to be more geek than grunt........ 69321[/snapback] I hope I can see your point, but then I think you're not right with it. IMHO only the tools to maintain or change things are more complicated, the matter itself has become much easier. Try to find an english PDF of the Dell'Orto manual and then look how many combos of needles, jets, valves, 'atomizers' and so on are possible and what these parts do. It's an endless story. The same with the ignition. Vacuum and centrifugal advance, how do they correspond? The last types of car carbs had two systems of vaccum advance, one for accelerating, one for cruising. Bikes normally never took care about this, by good reasons probably. Somehow it all worked acceptable even if single components were not at its best. That's one thing that has not changed anyway! Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 You know, I read all this and look at these charts, and think to myself that if I need to get a fix of bike fettling, I'll buy a nice classic with carburettors, ignition you can set by twiddling the points, vacuum and centrifugal advance etc. Simple and satisfying. It seems in the modern world, you have to be more geek than grunt........ 69321[/snapback] Hey Nog - I think y'er startin' to come around! May I suggest something even simpler and more satisfying than fiddling with pilot and main jets, slide cutaways and chop-throttle plug reading sessions - it's just the thing to get you off the keyboard and out on the road: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 Hey Nog - I think y'er startin' to come around! May I suggest something even simpler and more satisfying than fiddling with pilot and main jets, slide cutaways and chop-throttle plug reading sessions - it's just the thing to get you off the keyboard and out on the road: 69487[/snapback] Oh yeah, sure it does so. Sometimes it even leaves you there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Oh yeah, sure it does so. Sometimes it even leaves you there... 69496[/snapback] Play nice Luhbo! Everyone knows that PCIII is reliable. On a more serious note, Wayne's latest release fixes the PCIII importing, for all but the .djm files. I also tried a .djm file on my serial PCIII and that did not work. I'll investigate and see if the latest PCIII software can open and convert it for use with the serial PCIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Play nice Luhbo! Everyone knows that PCIII is reliable. On a more serious note, Wayne's latest release fixes the PCIII importing, for all but the .djm files. I also tried a .djm file on my serial PCIII and that did not work. I'll investigate and see if the latest PCIII software can open and convert it for use with the serial PCIII. 69707[/snapback] Okay, apparently there is only a one way conversion...from .map to .djm, but not from .djm to .map, but here is the work-around: You can download the USB software, open the djm file with the USB software, highlight the map's numbers, copy and past to the serial software or to an excel spreadsheet, then create the serial map based on the numbers you just copied... A little work, but I've done this with good results. I have got to try it. I am not sure if it will work because the cells don't line up exactly. But you should be able to verify the success of the above steps by importing the .map file to the PCIII USB software and convert it back to a .djm file. Or worse case scenario, analyze it cell by cell and move the numbers over that way, but then verify, just in case the .djm algorithm is different than the .map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slowpoke Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I know there are some pretty smart gents on this forum but don't you think that Moto Guzzi should have got it right in the first place? Or am I just hallucinating? My S&S motor on my Indian never once gave me any kind of hesitation, jerkiness(from leaness) and the poor running at 4000(+ or -) rpms that Moto Guzzi exhibits. So, my guess is instead of reinventing the wheel I'm going to buy something else- I'm leaning towards Japanese-unless someone here on this forum comes up with the all knowing, all seeing solution to this problem... There, I said it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gthyni Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 The solution: Keep the revs between 5k and 8k, both you and the engine are happier that way. An S&S might be happier than a V11 at 4k RPM but at 8k it will .. no, it will NOT I've been in touch with Oz, my order for a Tuneboy package is in. I'm selling my PCIII BTW, check the classifieds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g.forrest Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 ''now where that box of magnetos'' [oh they were a good carby.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 I know there are some pretty smart gents on this forum but don't you think that Moto Guzzi should have got it right in the first place? Or am I just hallucinating? My S&S motor on my Indian never once gave me any kind of hesitation, jerkiness(from leaness) and the poor running at 4000(+ or -) rpms that Moto Guzzi exhibits. So, my guess is instead of reinventing the wheel I'm going to buy something else- I'm leaning towards Japanese-unless someone here on this forum comes up with the all knowing, all seeing solution to this problem... There, I said it... 69710[/snapback] I don't know how exactly the US versions run, but the european Guzzis perform very well. Maybe not out of the box, but carefully adjusted exactly how the book says it they are running very well! In most cases they suffer from two things: first owners who know everything better and adjust here and there or just have two left hands, and second shops that know everything better and adjust here and there or have stuff with two left hands. If you look e.g. how some cut down the airboxes, remove snorkels, add silly tubes normaly meant for connecting their loo and so on, no wonder that in most cases the bikes run like crap. Leave the bike as it comes, adjust it carefully, means literally tune it perfectly, and then enjoy it. That's exactly what is done with 99% of the Jap bikes. If your Guzzi seems to be f## up it is probably fu## up. This is my experience and believe. No need to switch! Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I know there are some pretty smart gents on this forum but don't you think that Moto Guzzi should have got it right in the first place? Or am I just hallucinating? My S&S motor on my Indian never once gave me any kind of hesitation, jerkiness(from leaness) and the poor running at 4000(+ or -) rpms that Moto Guzzi exhibits. So, my guess is instead of reinventing the wheel I'm going to buy something else- I'm leaning towards Japanese-unless someone here on this forum comes up with the all knowing, all seeing solution to this problem... There, I said it... 69710[/snapback] Your bike is one that I would HIGHLY recommend for a PCIII USB and two cylinder mapping. The Tuneboy may be able to do two cylinder mapping, but it would be more tedious process. My experience with the Quat-D is that the nature of the two into one is very different than what the stock ECU is mapped for. You can always trade me your Quat-D for my Mistrals Glad to see you are still around. I don't think I can make the Bill Ross Toy Ride this weekend, but you might want to attend. Todd will be there, and you could probably talk to him about getting it working right. And if Jedione is there, he can throw in his two cents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slowpoke Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Dlaing, good to here from you. No actually I think all my bike needs is a good throttle body sync. It seems to move quite well when rolling on the throttle because I put Dave Blunks' velocity stacks on. The only problem is when in traffic and holding a steady rpm right around 4000. The bike seems to be holding up well except the herky/jerky feeling in the fuel injection. I truefully have no complaints about the bike other than the injection. It has been a very good reliable motorcycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Hey Carl, should I use a 50,000BTU propane torch or my OEM Guzzi batteries arc welding capabilites to solder your My15M ECU? 67856[/snapback] Arc welder? I have the optimizer and the cables - buried somewhere in the morass of boxes after the retirement move. You can send the unit back to me and I'll send the whole thing back to Cliff for updating. I snagged a Ducati WM15 to put the MY15M into and I'd probably be better off paying Cliff to do it right rather than fight with it myself given the current condition of my work area (garage - 27˚F). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I'd probably be better off paying Cliff to do it right rather than fight with it myself given the current condition of my work area (garage - 27˚F). 70224[/snapback] Brrrrrr, I did not know OK got down to - 27ºF, that is a minus sign, right Now looking at the chart, you would be suckkin' fuel something fast according to the map: ...and yah, I'll put MY ECU back in the mail....It may take me a while as things are hectic...I am sure you are in no hurry. PS You don't wanna turn into a Popsicle® so, don't for get to tip the Heating Oil delivery guy, and of course pay the bill. Maybe you should insulate the garage PPS Took the bike to Long Beach Bike Show today, and saw RacerX, GH67, WSholar, TTJim, Jedione, and his son, a crazy rugrat who jumped up and bounced off half the bikes in the show....craZy! The show was fun, too....Now I just have to figure out how to morph together the fine characteristics of the Breva and the Griso into my sport....will probably not, but sitting on the Griso felt like sitting on a bull ready to leave the gate, and the engine wasn't even running, while the Breva embodied every ergonomic improvement I could want....sweet....but 200#+ riders will want stiffer springs. And, 150#- riders on the Griso may want softer springs.... Sorry, I digressed....back to the topic, so, I loaded, my base map plus Tom H.'s map (from: http://www.guzzitech.com/PCIII-Maps.html ) It worked pretty well, but felt a little rich in many places, and I still need to tune out the pinging. Also, I tried moving the PCIII USB .djm map to a spread sheet program(Open Office, but Excel is fine, too.) by copying and pasting....should be piece of cake to put it into the PCIII serial .map map....but have not tried that yet. Slowpoke, Good to hear from you, again. I think we can tune out some of the herky/jerkys. There is no reason that you cannot make it run as smooth as a carby, but MO' Bettah! Todd smooths out many of the PCIII maps by adding 15 to 0%throttle at various RPMs and a few other numbers, you can look at some of the maps, like the Tom H. map, that have these numbers....just look for the collumns of 15s, 10s, and 5's at zero to light throttle, above something like two or three thousand RPMs...not all dynotuners know Guzzis and tuning like Todd does, so they don't know this simple trick to make it run more smoothly. Your map may already have it, but if not, give it a try. I'll come over and give you moral support! Or you can hang out at my garage, and we'll plug you into the computer. I could also demonstrate the TuneEdit, but I need more practice with it before I offer to put it in your bike and change things. And of course there is no substitute for dyno tuning. Also, I have TwinMax balancer that I can bring along! (and maybe that is all it needs...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 For all you diehard readers, here is my TuneBoy tuning experience update. For the most part, I gave up on the Ti Map. It felt very good and mid to high RPMs, but lower rpms, and throttles had greatly increased popping. My overlay of a PCIII map did not seem to help. So, I went back to the OEM ECU and overlayed the PCIII map for mistral mufflered v11. I then proceed to slowly enrichen and retard it until the pinging went away. The good news is that I have tuned it so that there is no pinging, even on 87 Octane. The bad news is fuel consumption is up. I am now getting 29 to 34 MPG(US) down from about 30-37MPG. Some decrease in fuel efficiency was expected as almost all the mods to the base map have been timing retarding and fuel enrichment. I am switching back to 89 OCTANE, and will see about pushing some of the numbers leaner. To start, I will mostly be targeting rich numbers from the PCIII overlay. cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfer81 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Hey Dlaing, In which zone do you have decrease the advance ? Of how much of degrée ? I have solve my problem of ping by enriching (with PCIII) the zone tps 80 and 100 by 15% (beetween 3000tr and 5500tr). The other zones are enriching at 10% for low rev and 5% for high rev (just for smooth drive and better cooling). without increase fuel consumption significatly. chrisfer81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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