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Avgas and the oxy sencer


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Next w/e at the local track theres a have a go day, now I.m wanting to take the V11 for a strop around. In the past I have run Avgas 100+oct which is a leaded fuel in the VTR1000 and 1100i sport, IMO I reckon the bikes ilke the extra bang mainly in the mid range.

 

Now my 04 V11 hand book says do NOT use a leaded fuel..... I expect due to the oxy sencer in the cross over.

Am I safe to use this fuel for a day at the track or will the bike get a shit on with me and play up???

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fark me guys... what a grumpy bunch ya turned into... get a dose a covid in ya... look, all im saying is my bike runs the best it ever has, and by the seat a dyno hauls beter than it ever has...

Why the need to use ethanol free? Tank expansion issues? Aviation fuel is a waste of money in a road engine esp a Guzzi engine, it can't use the higher Octane capability of 100LL. It's also less volat

or maybe its the mk4 belly pan that's made the differance...

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I would suggest not using any leaded fuel with the 02 sensor. The lead will coat the 02 sensor in a very short time which will lead to $$$$ for replacement. Just buy the highest octane unleaded fuel for the track, thats all I use here in the States.

 

Mike

 

 

Next w/e at the local track theres a have a go day, now I.m wanting to take the V11 for a strop around. In the past I have run Avgas 100+oct which is a leaded fuel in the VTR1000 and 1100i sport, IMO I reckon the bikes ilke the extra bang mainly in the mid range.

 

Now my 04 V11 hand book says do NOT use a leaded fuel..... I expect due to the oxy sencer in the cross over.

Am I safe to use this fuel for a day at the track or will the bike get a shit on with me and play up???

81886[/snapback]

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Next w/e at the local track theres a have a go day, now I.m wanting to take the V11 for a strop around. In the past I have run Avgas 100+oct which is a leaded fuel in the VTR1000 and 1100i sport, IMO I reckon the bikes ilke the extra bang mainly in the mid range.

 

Now my 04 V11 hand book says do NOT use a leaded fuel..... I expect due to the oxy sencer in the cross over.

Am I safe to use this fuel for a day at the track or will the bike get a shit on with me and play up???

81886[/snapback]

 

The '04s have an oxy sensor in the x-over? Who knew? I thought it was only the Brevas & newer that came with an oxy sensor for FI feedback...

 

The reason your handbook says unleaded fuel only is because of the cat converters in the exhaust cans. Running leaded will kill those things before you can run thru one tankful, and then you've done two things: made it impossible for your bike to pass smog [if you live somewhere that regularly smogs motorcycles] and plugged up your cans even more than they came plugged [in order to pass noise limits] in stock form.

 

The oxygen sensor would be of secondary concern; since they used them to tune back in the days when you could still buy leaded gas, I'm guessing they're not too susceptible to occasional leaded fuel exposure the way that the platinum & palladium in catcons are...

 

Executive Summary: don't use an avgas booster shot in an '03 or '04 V11 unless you've replaced the stock cans with aftermarket [none of which come with catalytic converters.]

 

Ride on!

:bike:

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Thanks guys, I have local made cans on the bike, so they will not be an issue, how ever I am concerned with the 02 sencer.

I'm only looking at a max of 100k's and fast k's at that, so unless someone else says NO then... I might try it.

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Thanks guys, I have local made cans on the bike, so they will not be an issue, how ever I am concerned with the 02 sencer.

I'm only looking at a max of 100k's and fast k's at that, so unless someone else says NO then... I might try it.

81948[/snapback]

 

If you decide to do so, then remember that the 100LL avgas has way more lead in it than any road fuel ever did, and that it's synergistic w/ the unleaded fuel additives, ie: by filling your tank 7/8 full with premium road fuel and then topping off the last bit w/ the avgas, you'll end up with higher octane than the premium with less lead going down the pipes. Used to do that all the time with the old Beetle back when there was still leaded Premium in our pumps here in Lo-Cal So. Cal... [the premium pump was the last to go to unleaded; since there were lots of cars still on the road that required leaded fuel, the CARB decided "let them eat cake!" figuring that the higher prices for premium would encourage people to trade in their old lead-burners sooner rather than later...]

 

Have fun at the track day!

 

:mg:

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  • 14 years later...
1 hour ago, Shepflylow said:

Does anyone have recent experience running 100LL Avgas with a crossover pipe in lieu of the catalytic converter? Will the ecu handle the removal of the cat and 100LL? Hard to find ethanol free gas in California. 

Why the need to use ethanol free? Tank expansion issues? Aviation fuel is a waste of money in a road engine esp a Guzzi engine, it can't use the higher Octane capability of 100LL. It's also less volatile and engines that are used in cooler/cold temperatures tend to have carburation issue using Avgas such as harder starting and dead spots in the fuelling. Back in the 90's Ducati superbikes saw no benefit using Avgas. The ECU is not calibrated for the lower volatility of Avgas so yes it wont run as well. It's not going to hurt it but the fuel and ignition mapping isn't optimised for Avgas and it's reduced volatility and the engine doesn't need the higher octane anyway. 

Ciao

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On 3/12/2006 at 12:00 PM, dangerous said:

... Avgas 100+oct ... I reckon the bikes ilke the extra bang mainly in the mid range.

 

10 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

...It's also less volatile and engines that are used in cooler/cold temperatures...

This entire thread seems to be based on a false conception, which Phil finally set right. High octane is the exact opposite of "extra bang". In fact, if your engine is indeed "banging", well that could be and indicator that you need extra octane. And unless your engine is heavily modified (such as with significantly higher compression than stock), then the correct octane would be the level specified in the owner's manual.

The ethanol issue is another story...

__Jason

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Shit guys... This thread was started over 14 years ago, things have changed. 

NZ now has 100oct unleaded at the pump, compared to a jap bike the Guzzi is higher compression and does benifit from higher Oct here, our 91oct is very shitty, I get a bit of engine pinking on it specially on hot days, 100 stops this. 

However since the thread started my bike had a completely different tune, exhaust is more open, filters are pods and the ecu is reprogrammed from an earler v11... Its never run so well. 

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Also keep in mind that in different parts of the world, octane is measured differently. Unless I'm mistaken, in NZ the octane reported at the pump is the RON value only. While here in the US, octane is calculated as (RON + MON)/2. So, what you find as 100 octane in NZ would actually be somewhere around 95 octane here in the US.

Original compression ratio on the V11 Sport was something like 9.5:1, which I think was bumped to 9.8:1 on later bikes, neither of which seem particularly high to me (an Aprilia RSV4 is 13.6:1 for comparison). My 2000 Sport used to ping quite a lot, regardless of which fuel I used. I think this is something that has been reported by a number of other V11 owners. I had the engine rebuilt, including hi-compression pistons, taking it to 10.25:1, and despite the actual higher compression, I've not had pinging problems since. I suspect that the pinging problem I had was due to a manufacturing defect in one of the heads, rather than a result of the compression.

__Jason

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13 minutes ago, jtucker said:

Also keep in mind that in different parts of the world, octane is measured differently. Unless I'm mistaken, in NZ the octane reported at the pump is the RON value only. While here in the US, octane is calculated as (RON + MON)/2. So, what you find as 100 octane in NZ would actually be somewhere around 95 octane here in the US.

Original compression ratio on the V11 Sport was something like 9.5:1, which I think was bumped to 9.8:1 on later bikes, neither of which seem particularly high to me (an Aprilia RSV4 is 13.6:1 for comparison). My 2000 Sport used to ping quite a lot, regardless of which fuel I used. I think this is something that has been reported by a number of other V11 owners. I had the engine rebuilt, including hi-compression pistons, taking it to 10.25:1, and despite the actual higher compression, I've not had pinging problems since. I suspect that the pinging problem I had was due to a manufacturing defect in one of the heads, rather than a result of the compression.

__Jason

" . . . manufacturing defect in one of the heads . . ."

What could that be? 

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I'm not sure, to be honest. I've heard some people posit that a manufacturing flaw in the head could potentially create a "hot spot", and lead to pre-ignition problems. But then again, a bad carbon deposit could potentially create the same symptoms.

All I know is that prior to the engine work, mine pinged pretty reliably on heavy throttle, and after the rebuild... it stopped doing that, which seems to imply that the compression alone couldn't have been causing it.

__Jason

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50 minutes ago, Shepflylow said:

It is nearly impossible to find ethanol free gas in California. I use a fuel additive for those vehicles with cats. It’s not about octane but storage.

Well if its about storage then the best thing you can do in these Ethanol days is to remove the tank and drain it completely for the storage period and leave it vented to remove the ethanol expansion issue and let it recover from any expansion that has occurred.

Ciao

 

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3 hours ago, jtucker said:

Also keep in mind that in different parts of the world, octane is measured differently. Unless I'm mistaken, in NZ the octane reported at the pump is the RON value only. While here in the US, octane is calculated as (RON + MON)/2. So, what you find as 100 octane in NZ would actually be somewhere around 95 octane here in the US.

Original compression ratio on the V11 Sport was something like 9.5:1, which I think was bumped to 9.8:1 on later bikes, neither of which seem particularly high to me (an Aprilia RSV4 is 13.6:1 for comparison). My 2000 Sport used to ping quite a lot, regardless of which fuel I used. I think this is something that has been reported by a number of other V11 owners. I had the engine rebuilt, including hi-compression pistons, taking it to 10.25:1, and despite the actual higher compression, I've not had pinging problems since. I suspect that the pinging problem I had was due to a manufacturing defect in one of the heads, rather than a result of the compression.

__Jason

Exactly. The result of your original pinging problem could also have been from carbon deposits on the head and piston before the new pistons.

Ciao

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