Guest John Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Hi all. I've been looking for a V11 of one flavor or another and wondered if MG will still warranty replace engine cases with the paint problem on the '02 models? Is there s a statute of limitations or anything like that? What if it's a second-hand bike? One more question while I've got you... How much of a concern is the "hand grenading" clutches on some '02 models? Was that a recall as well? Thanks in advance. Great site, nice folks here. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 One more question while I've got you... How much of a concern is the "hand grenading" clutches on some '02 models? Was that a recall as well? Thanks in advance. Great site, nice folks here. -John Guzzi never produced 'hand grenade' clutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Hi all. I've been looking for a V11 of one flavor or another and wondered if MG will still warranty replace engine cases with the paint problem on the '02 models? Is there s a statute of limitations or anything like that? What if it's a second-hand bike? One more question while I've got you... How much of a concern is the "hand grenading" clutches on some '02 models? Was that a recall as well? Thanks in advance. Great site, nice folks here. -John Typically, a recall is a recall: time limits don't necessarily apply. However, that's a recall, as opposed to a company-sponsored "voluntary recall," which means the govt. never got involved, & the company is under no legal obligation beyond the terms they set forth themselves [ie, the smart companies do voluntary or silent recalls before the govt. ever gets involved, as the costs in the long run are much lower...] IIRC, the bubbly case-paint issue, since it doesn't represent any kind of hazardous condition to the owner/rider, is a voluntary recall & conditions will therefore vary from importer to importer, etc. 2nd-hand bikes may or may not be eligible, at the importer's discrection. [in short, I wish you luck! It's worth a try, but chances are that the previous owner took the "plan B" option of Guzzi soft goods & the "recall" has therefore already been performed...] WRT "grenading clutches:" - the single-plate RAM aluminum clutches have been known to let go: these were only on specific models, iirc, the Tennis, Scuras & Rosso Mandellos. There is a completely unrelated issue w/ the single-plate (iron) clutches used in some of the Cali?/Stone?/Metal? cruisers, which experienced rapid wear due to the fact that the clutches are very sensitive to correct adjustment & inadequate care being taken to allow for the initial stretch in the cables on these models [a non-issue on the hydraulicly-actuated V11 spineys. Again, one of Guzzi's imponderable corporate decisions... ] Anyway, back to the RAM-style grenading clutches: the aftermarket RAM single-plate clutches apparently do not have any issues, just the ones that RAM oem'd for Guzzi according to Guzzi's specs [which either did not specify a radius at a critical stress-riser, or spec'd an inadequate aluminum alloy/heat treat, or a combination of these], but with all things aluminum, it's just a matter of time before the duty cycle exceeds the unknowable repetitive stress-failure point. If you have one of these models, start saving now for the replacement, & get it sooner rather than later. Hey, Pete, Todd or any other Guzzi mech: how many of the cruiser [iron] single-plates have you swapped out, & has anyone started collecting these to have them rebuilt for swapping into the aluminum-clutch spineys? Might be a good ounce-of-prevention idea... ;-) Remember, IANAL, YMMV, & without a doubt, get a 2nd opinion from somebody who is more clueful than I! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 How much of a concern is the "hand grenading" clutches on some '02 models? Was that a recall as well? It's getting to be more of a concern as a few more (Scura) people report problems. However most are still riding around ok and enjoying the thing. – Watch this space. There is no recall. – Don't bother watching this space. with all things aluminum, it's just a matter of time before the duty cycle exceeds the unknowable repetitive stress-failure point. But there's loads of aluminium stuff out there and it lasts for years and decades: in motorbikes, cars, boats, planes, buildings... safety-critical tools & equipment... etc... Plus, you could say the same of any material. nice folks here. Don't look in here. :!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Good point, apparently they only purchased and installed thm . Guzzi never produced 'hand grenade' clutches. Thanks Skeeve, this is very useful info. Typically, a recall is a recall: time limits don't necessarily apply. However, that's a recall, as opposed to a company-sponsored "voluntary recall," which means the govt. never got involved, & the company is under no legal obligation beyond the terms they set forth themselves [ie, the smart companies do voluntary or silent recalls before the govt. ever gets involved, as the costs in the long run are much lower...] IIRC, the bubbly case-paint issue, since it doesn't represent any kind of hazardous condition to the owner/rider, is a voluntary recall & conditions will therefore vary from importer to importer, etc. 2nd-hand bikes may or may not be eligible, at the importer's discrection. [in short, I wish you luck! It's worth a try, but chances are that the previous owner took the "plan B" option of Guzzi soft goods & the "recall" has therefore already been performed...] WRT "grenading clutches:" - the single-plate RAM aluminum clutches have been known to let go: these were only on specific models, iirc, the Tennis, Scuras & Rosso Mandellos. There is a completely unrelated issue w/ the single-plate (iron) clutches used in some of the Cali?/Stone?/Metal? cruisers, which experienced rapid wear due to the fact that the clutches are very sensitive to correct adjustment & inadequate care being taken to allow for the initial stretch in the cables on these models [a non-issue on the hydraulicly-actuated V11 spineys. Again, one of Guzzi's imponderable corporate decisions... ] Anyway, back to the RAM-style grenading clutches: the aftermarket RAM single-plate clutches apparently do not have any issues, just the ones that RAM oem'd for Guzzi according to Guzzi's specs [which either did not specify a radius at a critical stress-riser, or spec'd an inadequate aluminum alloy/heat treat, or a combination of these], but with all things aluminum, it's just a matter of time before the duty cycle exceeds the unknowable repetitive stress-failure point. If you have one of these models, start saving now for the replacement, & get it sooner rather than later. Hey, Pete, Todd or any other Guzzi mech: how many of the cruiser [iron] single-plates have you swapped out, & has anyone started collecting these to have them rebuilt for swapping into the aluminum-clutch spineys? Might be a good ounce-of-prevention idea... ;-) Remember, IANAL, YMMV, & without a doubt, get a 2nd opinion from somebody who is more clueful than I! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Good point, apparently they only purchased and installed thm . That also never happened.Nor they did produce , or assemble 'hand grenade' clutches. And since you're rookie and as it seems uninformed about what is a Guzzi , not play smart guy the ones who do- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Ok this grenading clutch thing you've heard of does exist, BUT it is a bit of a red herring. There have only been a dozen or so that have "exploded". And the ones that have are limited to the Scura model v11, there has not been even one case that I know of for failures in other models. The Rosso Mandello & the Tenni model v11 have the same type of clutch but there has not been one single failure in those models that I am aware of, & believe me if it were a problem we would be well aware of it here. If you want a v11 but are worried about the clutch just dont buy the Scura, simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 There have only been a dozen or so that have "exploded". And the ones that have are limited to the Scura model v11, there has not been even one case that I know of for failures in other models. The Rosso Mandello & the Tenni model v11 have the same type of clutch but there has not been one single failure in those models that I am aware of, & believe me if it were a problem we would be well aware of it here. If you want a v11 but are worried about the clutch just dont buy the Scura, simple as that. Yep happened on scuras, not a dozen, if I recall correct Paul has made an invest on the subject and there were 5or6 occassions that was a broken clutch out of 600 or so Scura models,not one in the Tennis or in Rosso Mandelos , so that's out of concideration in anyway. I know a clutch that broke of a DaytonaRS once, so what, sould we say Daytonas brake their clutches as well ? (cause very few of them were made) If one doesn't know exact the use(incl service) and the conditions of what happened, one can't really say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Hey, Pete, Todd or any other Guzzi mech: how many of the cruiser [iron] single-plates have you swapped out, & has anyone started collecting these to have them rebuilt for swapping into the aluminum-clutch spineys? Might be a good ounce-of-prevention idea... ;-) Been doin' this for about a year now. Have stacks of them. I even have one in my Super Eldo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I don't know what this means or what you're trying to say: "And since you're rookie and as it seems uninformed about what is a Guzzi" I do know of a clutch on a Scura coming apart catastrophically. No need to get defensive or use the rude little smilies. Let me now retract my previous "nice folks here" comment. That also never happened.Nor they did produce , or assemble 'hand grenade' clutches. And since you're rookie and as it seems uninformed about what is a Guzzi , not play smart guy the ones who do- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Jaap Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 On this years holiday in Norway we somehow landed up on Guzzi's secret test-track... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 One more question while I've got you... How much of a concern is the "hand grenading" clutches on some '02 models? Was that a recall as well? I do know of a clutch on a Scura coming apart catastrophically. So was it one , in one model , and not many in various models. You see, this seems just uninformed, nothing bad about it, none knows it all anyway. To make the long story short , people like to spread bad rummors about something, without really being a problem and that's wrong. Though Guzzi passes all motorcycles on the test bench before are sent to the shops,who can guess a couple of defective circumstances (like this.)... IMO, under Aprilia ownership, Guzzi had some of it's worst times (OK it was updated though, on some sectors) but there were a few little things that weren't taken care off, like the peeling off paint . And to those who don't know the factory was used sometimes times, to assemple Aprilias !!! And this: , is something I didn't provoke nor I tolerrate. On this years holiday in Norway we somehow landed up on Guzzi's secret test-track... I guess you're lucky you didn't pass up a Ducati test track, I have heared that some of their models have a tedency to catch up on fire !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Geez Alex, I don't know what you think means, but get over yourself. "nor do I tolerate". I'm ignoring you from now on. Bu bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 with all things aluminum, it's just a matter of time before the duty cycle exceeds the unknowable repetitive stress-failure point. But there's loads of aluminium stuff out there and it lasts for years and decades: in motorbikes, cars, boats, planes, buildings... safety-critical tools & equipment... etc... Plus, you could say the same of any material. No. Steel has a computable "never fail" rate. Aluminum [& titanium? - can't recall just now...] parts can only be overbuilt to the point where you can reasonably expect them not to fail within the expected service life for that unit. But it's like MTBF for computer equipment: some will last years longer, others will fail uh, now? This is part of the reason there are hundreds of jet airliners[1] parked out on the Mojave, & why the aluminum chassis on those armored cars the banks use all the time are replaced every 3-5 years. It's just the nature of the material. The "loads of aluminum stuff out there that lasts for years and decades" was either over-engineered to allow for the long service live [& hence, heavier than an equivalent steel part might need to be to perform the same duty for ever] or isn't subjected to a significant repetitive stress [like, lawn furniture.] Kinda blew my mind when I found out about this, but it does help to explain why car manufacturers have been slow to go to all-aluminum vehicles. Why not the same reluctance from motorcycle manufacturers? Don't forget, most bikes are viewed as expendable toys, not serious daily use vehicles [by the manufacturers, not necessarily by their owners!] and so the "weight vs. longevity" equation is skewed in the opposite direction from that of a cage... Ride on! [1] Years ago [early 50s?], one of the first series of all-aluminum airliners [Lockheed Constellation?] started not making their ETAs. Vanished w/o a trace. Nobody could figure out what was going on, it had a real damping effect on the burgeoning international travel biz ["Europe on $5 a day" Marshall plan era] until they finally found some pieces on the ocean floor or in a forest somewhere & did the accident investigation. The planes weren't crashing, they were coming to pieces at 30,000' when the aluminum catastrophically failed at random intervals. Took'em awhile to figure that one out; Lockheed had just built them to tighter parameters, and it turns out, when an aluminum plane isn't overbuilt like a Gooneybird, they fail. Now, they have better understanding & regular NDT to discover incipient cracks, etc. Sux to be the test chicken tho'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Apart from anything else, I was thinking about ever-skinnier aluminium bike frames – but I suppose we don't know how long they last for yet. Yeah, I'd rather have a steel trellis anyway. And ye olde Reynolds 531 is still as good as new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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