Failure!!

[DeBenGuzzi]

I have bigbikerrick's engine. By the time I even find out if it runs, I'll have put more than $500 into repairs just to ready it to be tried out. In addition to the horrible Guzzi bubble paint, it was burned and smacked into at the front by the tire. The original plan was to fix it (the V11 Sport engine) up and put it into the Bugswatter and set the original Bugswatter engine aside for later repairs/sell. Now, with the impending purchase of a Norge in a few weeks, my plans have changed. I'm trying to sell the Bugswatter. I will at some point have some sort of spare engine available. Which one depends upon the status of the V11 Sport engine. At the moment, it's being soda blasted to the tune of $200. I should be picking it up today or tomorrow. Then it's replace a bunch of stuff, adapt an engine stand, find a set of throttle bodies and injectors, linkage etc. I have a lot of that stuff too, but it has to be re-conditioned as well and then whatever parts are missing have to be ordered and installed. As everyone in the USA knows, getting parts here for MG's is not always an expeditious process, so this could be a rather lengthy project time-wise.

maybe since youre going in a new direction you could sell your spare engine for what you paid plus work done to steadler and he could peice together a completely working model from his blown and your scraped-up motor I would guess this is cheaper than 4K and then you both would be in a better place

[callison]

maybe since youre going in a new direction you could sell your spare engine for what you paid plus work done to steadler and he could peice together a completely working model from his blown and your scraped-up motor I would guess this is cheaper than 4K and then you both would be in a better place

 

Anything is possible I suppose. I'm trying to wind up with the Bugswatter in good running condition, a spare engine and a set of Mike Rich heads and then sell all of those as well as my California. With a set of stock used heads on it, I'd sell the Bugswatter as is for $3500. No takers so far though, so I suspect I'll have to re-engine it to make it viable for selling.

[staedtler]

I was on the phone with the mechanic, we'll see how bad the damage is, not way of telling so far...

 

 

 

I'm heading over to the shop....i'm meeting francis who's trailering the bike over there.

 

keep you posted....

[Guest Gary Cheek]

The drama intensifies .

[badmotogoozer]

I'll be installing a Roper slopper in the next few months, wondering how hard it would be to check my big end bearings while I'm there. If can easily be done, I might have a new set of bearings and bolts on hand just in case. I do remember the light coming on oh so very briefly at one point and finding my oil level low. Would rather know now if there is damage than when it goes bang later... Even if it costs me some $ unnecessarily, the peace of mind is worth it if I head down to Oregon/N. Cal for a month next summer.

 

Some will scream "guzzichondria" at me, but if you had my bike, you'd come to expect the worst too...

 

cheers,

 

Rj

[pete roper]

Slipping in a new set of hells with the motor in situ is fiddly but quite doable. Unbolt the caps and wriggle them off, (This can be a pain on V11's as the rod s have dowels where the bolts go through.). You can then push the rods up he bore a ways and pry the rod cap out and install a new one after making sure you wipe the inside of the rod eye to remove any dirt and as much oil as possible, you want it dry if you can. Then replace the shell in the cap also making sure that the surface of the cap and back of the shell are clean and dry. Slather on lots of assembley lube onto the bearings and as long as the crankpin looks OK you can then pull he rod back down onto the pin and re-install the cap with the new bolts

 

Make sure the cap goes back on the facing the same way as it came off and torque the bolts in three steps to their specified torque. Repeat for other rod. Now turn the crank to make sure the bearings aren't binding.

 

If the crankpin shows any damage it will most likely be in the form of little bits of the shell that have melted and welded themselves to the crank pin. Ideally you should remove the crank and linish it but it is quite possible to use a length of 1200 wet and dry tape wrapped around the pin to give it a polish and get off the bits of bearing. After you've done this rinse it thoroughly with carby cleaner or some such before re-installing the rods and shells.

 

pete

[Guest ratchethack]

Great stuff, Pete.

 

Is this a sad, sad joke, or did I read somewhere that it's HIGHLY recommended to use new rod cap bolts whenever the caps come off, and that these little gems are something like $38 USD EACH -- IF you can get 'em?!?!

 

This would tend to put a slight damper on the motivation for a "symptomless" inspection, n'est-ce pas?

 

BTW - How do you feel about using carefully applied Loctite Stud & Bearing Mount or the equivalent on the back of bearing shells?

 

TIA

[jrt]

Is this a sad, sad joke, or did I read somewhere that it's HIGHLY recommended to use new rod cap bolts whenever the caps come off, and that these little gems are something like $38 USD EACH -- IF you can get 'em?!?!

 

yep, that's common advice. Good thing I have a spare set in my basement.

 

No, you can't have them. I'm building up my round fin.

 

Truth be told, a lot of folks re-use the rod bolts. I don't have the experience to say if that is wise or not.

[pete roper]

Great stuff, Pete.

 

Is this a sad, sad joke, or did I read somewhere that it's HIGHLY recommended to use new rod cap bolts whenever the caps come off, and that these little gems are something like $38 USD EACH -- IF you can get 'em?!?!

 

This would tend to put a slight damper on the motivation for a "symptomless" inspection, n'est-ce pas?

 

BTW - How do you feel about using carefully applied Loctite Stud & Bearing Mount or the equivalent on the back of bearing shells?

 

TIA

 

But Ratch, Ryan sez he has new bolts! Hence the suggestion that it would be an easy enough thing to do. If he's suggested just dropping off a cap and bolting it back up again with the old ones all the bells and klaxons would be going off now!

 

Having said that I know of at least one experienced Guzzi wrench here in Oz who always re-uses rod bolts unles there has been a major whoopsie! Would I? Would I buggery!

 

On the subject of bearing mount? This stuff is designed to stop loose roller bearings spinning in their seats in cases. I always work on the principle that if the rod is correctly dimensioned and the journal and the bearings are the right size the BEST way of doing things is to stick the shells in the rods as clean and dry as possible. You don't want lubricant behind them because this will encorage the bearing to spin. You don't want anything else because this will inhibit the transfer of heat and also there is the risk that some of the glue will end up getting on the face of the shell causing a high spot. Also even the thinnest smear of glue will alter the bearing clearance, you don't want that.

 

If you klook at the rod faces where the bearing sits you can see how good the ciontact is by the darker areas on the rod face. Guzzi rods tend to be darn good here, I can see no need for any sort of gloop. Remember it is the friction imparted by the 'Nip', (Yes that is the correct term ) that stops the bearings from spinning, not the ears on the end of the shells.

 

pete

 

yep, that's common advice. Good thing I have a spare set in my basement.

 

No, you can't have them. I'm building up my round fin.

 

Truth be told, a lot of folks re-use the rod bolts. I don't have the experience to say if that is wise or not.

 

Jason, the 1100's use different rods and bolts. ecause of the increased stroke of the 1100 motors they had to re-design the rods and they now use bolts that screw into the shank of the rod rather than bolts with nuts inserted from the *top* of the rod. The reason for this was that the earlier type rods requiring the bolt head on top of the shoulder of the rod shank were too *tall* and with the extra stroke the heads of the bolts would biff on the cam. This is one of the reasons why I'm a bit perplexed as to how they have managed to stroke the new 1200 motors? Have they made the top crescent of the rod shank thinner? if so how have they maintained strenght?????

 

Pete

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Never use anything behind the bearing insert. Along with taking up space the stuff will insulate the bearing, possibly preveting proper heat transfer. A hot spot on the bearing is not good. Bearing shells fitted to a clean, sized rod are well and good on their own.

[mike wilson]

Jason, the 1100's use different rods and bolts. ecause of the increased stroke of the 1100 motors they had to re-design the rods and they now use bolts that screw into the shank of the rod rather than bolts with nuts inserted from the *top* of the rod. The reason for this was that the earlier type rods requiring the bolt head on top of the shoulder of the rod shank were too *tall* and with the extra stroke the heads of the bolts would biff on the cam. This is one of the reasons why I'm a bit perplexed as to how they have managed to stroke the new 1200 motors? Have they made the top crescent of the rod shank thinner? if so how have they maintained strenght?????

 

Pete

 

I've been wondering along the same lines. The only conclusion I could come to was that the motors have been redesigned totally, moving the cam out of reach.

[Guest ratchethack]

On the subject of bearing mount? This stuff is designed to stop loose roller bearings spinning in their seats in cases. I always work on the principle that if the rod is correctly dimensioned and the journal and the bearings are the right size the BEST way of doing things is to stick the shells in the rods as clean and dry as possible. You don't want lubricant behind them because this will encorage the bearing to spin. You don't want anything else because this will inhibit the transfer of heat and also there is the risk that some of the glue will end up getting on the face of the shell causing a high spot. Also even the thinnest smear of glue will alter the bearing clearance, you don't want that.

 

If you klook at the rod faces where the bearing sits you can see how good the ciontact is by the darker areas on the rod face. Guzzi rods tend to be darn good here, I can see no need for any sort of gloop. Remember it is the friction imparted by the 'Nip', (Yes that is the correct term ) that stops the bearings from spinning, not the ears on the end of the shells.

Roger that, and thanks again for (what is for me, anyway ) more "advanced" stuff, Pete. I've always used lacquer thinner to "surgically" clean plain bearing cradles & caps before doing a thorough "dry" wipe-down with a new cotton shop rag just before dry installation of bearing shells (well lubed on bearing surfaces prior to assembly of course). Never spun a bearing this way myself. But I heard just recently of a guy using stud n' bearing mount, which has worked well for me only on rolling element crank bearings with outer rings that previously had a tendency to wander. Your points about heat transfer, risk of migration onto bearing surface, and clearance all make logical sense.

 

If you don't mind, could you post another note on "nip"? More topsoil erosion on my part. I know you've covered it before but I can't find it now and it'd seem to fit the discussion.

 

TIA

[jrt]

Jason, the 1100's use different rods and bolts. ecause of the increased stroke of the 1100 motors they had to re-design the rods and they now use bolts that screw into the shank of the rod rather than bolts with nuts inserted from the *top* of the rod. The reason for this was that the earlier type rods requiring the bolt head on top of the shoulder of the rod shank were too *tall* and with the extra stroke the heads of the bolts would biff on the cam. This is one of the reasons why I'm a bit perplexed as to how they have managed to stroke the new 1200 motors? Have they made the top crescent of the rod shank thinner? if so how have they maintained strenght?????

 

Pete

 

 

Interesting! But do they still use the same rear main bearing???

[Alex-Corsa]

Hey people , don't predict it too far, let's wait and see what the verdict says.

Points are to be given to the best predictions.

 

[slug]

Points are to be given to the best predictions.

 

I think they'll find a garter snake in the sump. If they're really lucky, my car keys will be in there too...