Daytona 4 valve special... in progres

[mille108]

Have you considered HSR 45's? I've got 42's running on my V11 and with the accelerator pumps completely disabled you have to really try to get the motor to stumble (basically whacking it open at idle is the only way to upset it). If I were to do it again I probably would use 45's and that's on a 2 valve motor with stock heads. I don't know, but I would think even though your heads are older they'd flow more.

 

I haven't talked about my conversion yet because I knew the sh*tstorm that would start because I dared to think a pile of computers and sensors might not be the right answer.

I rebuilt the top end when I was doing the conversion and I'm waiting to break it all in before I put it on a dyno. It runs great and has never run so cleanly down low.

 

I'm very, very happy with the change though there are some things still to work out, none of them having to do with the actual running, just trying to figure out the best throttle and cable setup. Currently the throttle effort is too high and I've already swapped out the return springs for much more reasonable ones.

 

I'll happily share my jetting info with you. It ought to at least be a decent ball park for you to start with.

 

johnk

 

 

Hi John..

 

well the dyno guy who is doing the setting up told me to go for 42..i was thinking about 45 myself aswell but he said it would be more than okay.

Im really curious about your conversion especially what type of ignition that you are using.

I have several options Fully programble or modifing the existing weber unit just for sparks..

Im going to use a Tomaselli dual cable throttle grip,not the racing type because i thought that the action would be too heavy so i settled for this one in black

 

[guzzi323]

Hi John..

 

well the dyno guy who is doing the setting up told me to go for 42..i was thinking about 45 myself aswell but he said it would be more than okay.

Im really curious about your conversion especially what type of ignition that you are using.

I have several options Fully programble or modifing the existing weber unit just for sparks..

Im going to use a Tomaselli dual cable throttle grip,not the racing type because i thought that the action would be too heavy so i settled for this one in black

 

 

That's the same throttle I'm using. You still end up with a 1/4 turn throttle and a very hard pull. I used Harley cables which have a thicker housing at the throttle and had to drill the Tomaselli case a little to get the cable to fit in it. For the ignition I've just unplugged everything from the computer. It keeps making a spark just fine, your box may be different.

 

Here's the jetting I'm running.

 

NeedleJ8-8DDY1-98 5th clip from top - Richest position

Pilot Jet VM28/486 25

Air Screw 1 1/4 turns out

Main Jet 155

Accelerator pumps set to 0

 

This runs quite nicely. I only have one choke operable but it still gets it going with little cranking. It is very sensitive to throttle synch which is a little tricky to get with the cables.

I had to raise the back of my tank a bit to clear the carbs.

I was thinking of trying a Magura Duo throttle assembly because it would be easier to modify to change the throttle ratio but then I have to come up with a 2 into 1 cable setup for it.

 

 

Best of luck to you.

 

johnk

[mille108]

That's the same throttle I'm using. You still end up with a 1/4 turn throttle and a very hard pull. I used Harley cables which have a thicker housing at the throttle and had to drill the Tomaselli case a little to get the cable to fit in it. For the ignition I've just unplugged everything from the computer. It keeps making a spark just fine, your box may be different.

 

Here's the jetting I'm running.

 

NeedleJ8-8DDY1-98 5th clip from top - Richest position

Pilot Jet VM28/486 25

Air Screw 1 1/4 turns out

Main Jet 155

Accelerator pumps set to 0

 

This runs quite nicely. I only have one choke operable but it still gets it going with little cranking. It is very sensitive to throttle synch which is a little tricky to get with the cables.

I had to raise the back of my tank a bit to clear the carbs.

I was thinking of trying a Magura Duo throttle assembly because it would be easier to modify to change the throttle ratio but then I have to come up with a 2 into 1 cable setup for it.

 

 

Best of luck to you.

 

 

 

 

johnk

 

Thanks for the settings.

 

Ive just ordered the choke also because it came without choke valves and a set of bell mouth's 60mm long, i will use 1100sport intake rubbers as they fit perfect on the carb and existing inlet manifold.

The ecu uses the tps to adjust the ignition timing so i presume that your bike is running on some sort of limp home fixed program now,but if it runs fine why bother.

HTM in Germany told me that they could modify the existing P8 system for sparks only(and still have that huge box on the bike),or i will go for this system.

 

carmo ignition

 

Then i could make copy of the existing ignition map from the P8 and program it into the carmo so we have a base setting,maybe i will put a small tps on one of the carbs so the carmo can use that info to adjust it.

We want i minimalistic bike so as much as possible wires and boxes will have to go, for example the starter button will be directly fitted on the starter motor.

 

 

[Richard]

Thanks for the settings.

 

Ive just ordered the choke also because it came without choke valves and a set of bell mouth's 60mm long, i will use 1100sport intake rubbers as they fit perfect on the carb and existing inlet manifold.

The ecu uses the tps to adjust the ignition timing so i presume that your bike is running on some sort of limp home fixed program now,but if it runs fine why bother.

HTM in Germany told me that they could modify the existing P8 system for sparks only(and still have that huge box on the bike),or i will go for this system.

 

carmo ignition

 

Then i could make copy of the existing ignition map from the P8 and program it into the carmo so we have a base setting,maybe i will put a small tps on one of the carbs so the carmo can use that info to adjust it.

We want i minimalistic bike so as much as possible wires and boxes will have to go, for example the starter button will be directly fitted on the starter motor.

 

 

Is that a metal bracket holding the starter switch onto the positive supply to the starter.....?

[mille108]

Is that a metal bracket holding the starter switch onto the positive supply to the starter.....?

 

Yes it is.. weird but it works fine

[Richard]

Yes it is.. weird but it works fine

I have no doubt that it would work fine, was more concerned if you happened to touch the engine with one of your fingers whilst pressing the button.... I'm sure that going through your hand is a much easier path for the electricity than going through the starter...

[mille108]

I have no doubt that it would work fine, was more concerned if you happened to touch the engine with one of your fingers whilst pressing the button.... I'm sure that going through your hand is a much easier path for the electricity than going through the starter...

 

Thats no problem,you can touch the negative and the postive from a 12v battery with your bare hands no problem..you wont feel a thing.

[gstallons]

That is a "sanitary" set-up on the starter button. Take some more pictures of things you have done.

p.s. You can touch 12v with wet hands and at best will get a "tingle". You have to get up to around 40v to feel anything. I think electric fences for farming have 60v dc.

[guzzi323]

The ecu uses the tps to adjust the ignition timing so i presume that your bike is running on some sort of limp home fixed program now,but if it runs fine why bother.

 

I could find nothing to show my ECU has what they sometimes call a 3d ignition map (where the advance curve is modified by the throttle position). I know you bike has a different ECU than mine but where did you see this? I still get a proper ignition advance though I'll have to admit I didn't measure it but I have seen it advance. The stock ECU for the V11 Sports isn't all that clever and I feel it's barely adequate for the task. If I wasn't such a Luddite I would have bought Cliff's MyEcu which seems like a very capable set up.

 

I like my motorcycles simple. Carbs can work really well when properly set up.

 

johnk

[jcbooghs]

Hi J.,

I've been looking for this starter-button too some time ago. But the 'construction market' ring, small wires and the price made me look for something different.

I found this at an electro shop for 17 euro. Very high quality and solide button that does the job perfect. Just in case you were looking for other solutions.

 

By the way, keep going! You're making a dike of a motorcycle (free translation, haha)

[mille108]

Merci, it will be something special for sure..

The project will be on hold for a couple of weeks because i will have to go to work again(expat) but as usual i will order a load of stuff so when i come back i have plenty to do..

The seat unit has arrived.

 

 

its tiny from a 125gp bike..

 

when I'm back we will do the rearsubframe and seat unit+the carb conversion in one go.

Most likely the rear shock mount will be converted into concentric item so i can change the length and hight of the schock mount..to play around with it,and it looks the dog's danglers obviously..

After that the alu swing arm..

JC good idea i will shop around a bit for the electrical stuff.. the moto spezial thing looks a bit flimsy indeed.

[jcbooghs]

That rear shock is also my problem! Are you gonna change the position of the shock or just put a height adjustable one in? After conversing to a 180-17 rim, the rear end has lowered one full centimetre in comparison to the original 160-18. Now my rear WP is overhauled, the damping is just too hard for me. So I had to loosen the spring to get the wanted sag. Everything seems to work fine, but, the rear end is again lower. Together with the changed rake and angle from 26 to 24, once again I had to lower the front height. Too much, way too much, it's just not feeling right. The bike is way too low. I've asked around for a good height adjustable rear-shock but... way too expensive !! But of course, that is my problem, if you want a good running bike, you need the bucks!

[mille108]

That rear shock is also my problem! Are you gonna change the position of the shock or just put a height adjustable one in? After conversing to a 180-17 rim, the rear end has lowered one full centimetre in comparison to the original 160-18. Now my rear WP is overhauled, the damping is just too hard for me. So I had to loosen the spring to get the wanted sag. Everything seems to work fine, but, the rear end is again lower. Together with the changed rake and angle from 26 to 24, once again I had to lower the front height. Too much, way too much, it's just not feeling right. The bike is way too low. I've asked around for a good height adjustable rear-shock but... way too expensive !! But of course, that is my problem, if you want a good running bike, you need the bucks!

 

 

I changed from 18 to 17 inch also but when we welded the new headstock back on at 24 degrees we lowered it by 10mm.

Still the balance doesn't feel right,if i do a track day on my RSV factory track bike and straight after that take the guzzi for a ride i feel that the centere of gravity is way to low on the guzzi.

I'm experimenting now with different ride heights by creating different mounting plates on the top shock mount(the Daytona has different mounting points compared to a 1100 sport) ive raised the rear by 5mm measured at the shock mount and that made it feel a bit better..but i cant go much higher because of the shaft drive <_>

But by creating a concentric mounting point you can raise the ride height but also the angle of the shock ..wich will make a huge diference.

Now ive raised the front by 10mm just to raise the complete bike and its improving the feel of the bike for sure..

The WP has to go at some point to be replaced by some modern stuff because im not that impressed with it,maybe this winter..the front Aprilia RSV fork will be changed to a MV Agusta F4 front end..not that its a better fork but i think it will look amazing together with the big 4v engine.

[mille108]

 

 

Work on the guzzi has started again..playing around with different headlights and seats..

 

The Guzzi is stripped bare..now doing the carb/ignition conversion and getting rid of all redundant stuff now..wires hoses..the lot.

 

[Dan M]

Beautiful. Really coming together nicely, love your choice of headlight, really gives it the cafe look.