cam chain tensioner

[thumper]

I saw the tool Chuck made to pull in the blade on the tensioner, is it possible to remove the blade install the gears and chain

then install the blade on the post having already installed the base?

[Chuck]

I believe it is. Disclaimer.. I've never tried doing it. 

[thumper]

Thanks Chuck, I will let you know if it does work.

You gave me a little bit of hope.

[fotoguzzi]

can you just pinch the blade back to the engine case with a needlenose vice grips? that's what I did and the new chain w/sprockets slipped right in.. long ago but I know I didn't have to take off the blade.

[thumper]

Worked fine taking the blade off.

[Chuck]

Worked fine taking the blade off.

Pictures or it didn't happen..

[thumper]

She is all buttoned up, my wife wont let me any where near her cameras with my greasy hands.

[Scud]

Glad worked. Sorry to be late to the party, but I installed mine with the blade on... then I read somewhere how Pete Roper described installing it by removing the blade first (and installing the blade at the end.) If I ever do another, I will certainly remember that.

[thumper]

O.K. so now I have the buzzzzz from the new tensioner, and the idle cough. I have a feeling it is the TPS.

[PhillipLarsen]

Looking for some knowledge about installing the Millepercento Cam chain tensioner I got from MG Cycle on my 2004 V11 Ballabio (about 26,000 Km)

I have read all the information I could find on this site about installing the tensioner, looked at the pictures and took my bike apart (exhaust off, Tank off, front fender off, front upper sub frame 4 bolts out and pivot forward, kick stand and mount off) all to make for easier working environment. I had tested using a timing light on both cyclinders to see if the scatter of igition at steady low speed was large and it was moving irradically back and forth at steady engine speed from just off an idle to about 2000 RPM and missfiring occationally at steady speed around 1900 to 1950 RPM. It was doing this prior to all the work (listed below) and still is. (alway when warmed up). I had set valve clearance and new plugs last fall and had only a couple rides before winter and thought it was gone, but it was not, just hiding in the cold weather!

Over the winter all sensors including TPS replaced, pulse sensor replaced and gap correct, full decent tune up (and verified several times), several tried times, always the same, does it with tank cap open, no spark leak at wires or plug caps, they are like new, plugs are new, valve clearanes set loose end of range, tried several brands of fuel, etc.

I now have Cam Case open, Gears (Cam/Crank/Oil Pump) removed, original cam chain tensioner removed. The tensioner is worn but not badly, the spring is very weak and takes very little force to hold it off the chain, it actually barly touches the chain with no pressure on it.

Tried fitting the new Millepercento/Stucchi type tensioner, and there is a problem. The case pad that the pin of the original sensor sits against is about 4.5 mm to high so cannot install new tensioner base which is flat and sits against (over) that pad. Even if I machine (grind out ) the case pad the 4.5 mm, will also need to relieve another 2mm for the end of the pin that protrudes through the base to clear the pad. The pad height relative to the height of the surface where the new tensioner lies on is 4.5 mm different as measured from the cam case joining face surface.

My question is have others installing these tensioners had to machine out the pad to install them, or am I missing something here?

I will attach pictures for reference. old tensioner prior to removal, case with removed (see pad on right side), old tensioner base and new tensioner.

I appreciate any help or advice on how to proceed to install this. 

Is this possibly not the correct tensioner? Is it normal to need to machine out the pad?

[Lucky Phil]

3 hours ago, PhillipLarsen said:

Looking for some knowledge about installing the Millepercento Cam chain tensioner I got from MG Cycle on my 2004 V11 Ballabio (about 26,000 Km)

I have read all the information I could find on this site about installing the tensioner, looked at the pictures and took my bike apart (exhaust off, Tank off, front fender off, front upper sub frame 4 bolts out and pivot forward, kick stand and mount off) all to make for easier working environment. I had tested using a timing light on both cyclinders to see if the scatter of igition at steady low speed was large and it was moving irradically back and forth at steady engine speed from just off an idle to about 2000 RPM and missfiring occationally at steady speed around 1900 to 1950 RPM. It was doing this prior to all the work (listed below) and still is. (alway when warmed up). I had set valve clearance and new plugs last fall and had only a couple rides before winter and thought it was gone, but it was not, just hiding in the cold weather!

Over the winter all sensors including TPS replaced, pulse sensor replaced and gap correct, full decent tune up (and verified several times), several tried times, always the same, does it with tank cap open, no spark leak at wires or plug caps, they are like new, plugs are new, valve clearanes set loose end of range, tried several brands of fuel, etc.

I now have Cam Case open, Gears (Cam/Crank/Oil Pump) removed, original cam chain tensioner removed. The tensioner is worn but not badly, the spring is very weak and takes very little force to hold it off the chain, it actually barly touches the chain with no pressure on it.

Tried fitting the new Millepercento/Stucchi type tensioner, and there is a problem. The case pad that the pin of the original sensor sits against is about 4.5 mm to high so cannot install new tensioner base which is flat and sits against (over) that pad. Even if I machine (grind out ) the case pad the 4.5 mm, will also need to relieve another 2mm for the end of the pin that protrudes through the base to clear the pad. The pad height relative to the height of the surface where the new tensioner lies on is 4.5 mm different as measured from the cam case joining face surface.

My question is have others installing these tensioners had to machine out the pad to install them, or am I missing something here?

I will attach pictures for reference. old tensioner prior to removal, case with removed (see pad on right side), old tensioner base and new tensioner.

I appreciate any help or advice on how to proceed to install this. 

Is this possibly not the correct tensioner? Is it normal to need to machine out the pad?

Personally I'd ditch th Millipercento unit. I've heard to many bad things about them from broken springs and blades to excessive load on the oil pump bearing. I'd go with one of these myself.

https://hmb-moto.de/Timing-Chain-tensioner-CNC-made-HMB-design

Have you precisely checked the timing sensor gap? May as well do it with the cover off. It was tightened up from the original spec years ago to deal with a running issue I've now forgotten but the gap is critical on the Guzzi as it is with Ducati twins.

Phil

 

Edited May 22 by Lucky Phil

[PhillipLarsen]

24 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Personally I'd ditch th Millipercento unit. I've heard to many bad things about them from broken springs and blades to excessive load on the oil pump bearing. I'd go with one of these myself.

https://hmb-moto.de/Timing-Chain-tensioner-CNC-made-HMB-design

Have you precisely checked the timing sensor gap? May as well do it with the cover off. It was tightened up from the original spec years ago to deal with a running issue I've now forgotten but the gap is critical on the Guzzi as it is with Ducati twins.

Phil

 

Thanks Phil, I had not seen that one before. It looks like similar layout to the original but sturdier, not clear what spring mechanism looks like. I am curious about whether the tensioner against the chain is stronger than the original. I will ask for more details and whether it fits in my engine. Have you installed one of these? Any case modification required?

Yes I checked the gap precisely when I put the new pulse generator in during winter Mtce and checked it again yesterday ( it is a tight .8mm) within spec. I need to take it out again to seal it as even though I put new sensor, o-ring and shims it is already seeping very slightly at under 1000 km since installed. I guess will additionally use some sealant. 

[pete roper]

I have to say I’ve installed a ton of those Valtech ‘Blade’ type tensioners over the years and have never had a problem with them. I have heard of the broken spring problem but never a broken blade. I tend to think it might be an installation issue rather than a design problem.

Yes, they do exert a higher pressure on the chain, at least initially and this can be heard as they whine quite loudly when new but they soon settle down as the blade ‘Relaxes’.

The was I installed them was to take the blade off the pin/base and bolt that on and then install the chain and sprockets before slipping the blade on half way with the pin just engaging the spring and then swing the blade round and pop it into the timing chest before pushing the pin end all the way on to the pin and reinstalling the nut and washer. Make sure the spring fits inside the bolt boss for the timing cover that it passes by. If you miss this and it’s over the boss the timing chest will leak when you tighten it down. It’s easily done.

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, PhillipLarsen said:

Thanks Phil, I had not seen that one before. It looks like similar layout to the original but sturdier, not clear what spring mechanism looks like. I am curious about whether the tensioner against the chain is stronger than the original. I will ask for more details and whether it fits in my engine. Have you installed one of these? Any case modification required?

Yes I checked the gap precisely when I put the new pulse generator in during winter Mtce and checked it again yesterday ( it is a tight .8mm) within spec. I need to take it out again to seal it as even though I put new sensor, o-ring and shims it is already seeping very slightly at under 1000 km since installed. I guess will additionally use some sealant. 

No I've not used one as my engine has aftermarket steel gears. The sealing design for the sensor is flawed so just fit it with the shims and oring and plenty of sealant on everything including between any shims. A bit inelegant but it works.

Phil   

[PhillipLarsen]

Thanks for the info Pete. The issue I am having is with the blade off the base / pin, when I go to place and bolt the base in place I cannot as it cannot lay flat due to the difference between the plane the base mounts on and the case pad under the aft end of the pin. About 4.5mm difference.