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What flows best?: stock intake air box or two small aftermarket filters?


Kane
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Those coiled plastic tubes are truly fugly, but it's a race bike and racers are supposed to experiment with stuff.

That said, I do fancy that full-length belly pan. I suppose that not having a side stand makes it easier to fit something like that.

And since we're looking closely and straying off topic... those rear-set pegs appear to be mounted inside the big nuts that lock the swing arm pivots in place. That must be fiddly...

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16 hours ago, Scud said:

On the theme of airbox mods... I just put a whole new airbox and an enormous pod filter on my 7.3L Turbo-Diesel F250. The new airbox draws in fresh air from the stock intake piece (which opens in front the radiator for cool air. But it also has a huge hole in the back of the airbox, so air intake can flow in from the other side.

I have an f250 7.3 too, got a link to the intake you installed ?

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4 hours ago, Scud said:

Those coiled plastic tubes are truly fugly, but it's a race bike and racers are supposed to experiment with stuff.

That said, I do fancy that full-length belly pan. I suppose that not having a side stand makes it easier to fit something like that.

And since we're looking closely and straying off topic... those rear-set pegs appear to be mounted inside the big nuts that lock the swing arm pivots in place. That must be fiddly...

Looks much like the one fitted to my bike except full length and sealed to contain oil for the race regs. Riding around on the road they tend to collect lots of road rubbish off the back tyre even if you drill holes in the bottom.

Ciao

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5 hours ago, JBBenson said:

I have an f250 7.3 too, got a link to the intake you installed ?

https://www.amazon.com/75-5027-Intake-Powerstroke-Cleanable-Cotton/dp/B001F0YHVM/ref=sr_1_22_sspa?crid=39OKS3Z8KF5KO&keywords=s%26b+cold+air+intake+6.7+powerstroke&qid=1579560110&sprefix=S%26B%2Caps%2C199&sr=8-22-spons&psc=1&smid=A3GJK7T1KN0PLM&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzNkpJWENZVkVCMDk0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTE2ODY5VUcyMEZGMFdCSEhPJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3MDQzODMyQjlXUkhMU1lSMEZDJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYnRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

It's the S&B kit. Link to Amazon above. Pretty straightforward bolt-on. A bit of fiddling, but that's to be expected. It is noticeably quicker across the RPM range - but still not fast by any stretch of the imagination. I also have modified exhaust, I think it's a 4" pipe.  There are different kits for the OBS (Old Body Style like mine) and the new body style starting in 1999..

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Seeing those coiled tubes reminds me of the saying "What goes around comes around" I use to tell a bad joke. What is the difference between a Harley and a Hoover?

Harley(Davidson motorcycle) and Hoover(vacuum cleaner)  Seeing that picture makes me the butt of my own joke. 

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Don’t mock the vacuum hose to supply the fresh cool air to the airbox - those Guareschi’s know a thing a two about getting the most outta Guzzi motors (did anyone actually translate the article?)

Apart from cost & ease of installation maybe they had additional bonus of the golf ball effect!!

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-dimples-in-golf-ba/

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  • 2 years later...

I found this short vid by Gale Banks (he sure knows a thing or two about pow-wuh!) with air density data interesting.

I often wonder on Ozzie summer days just to what degree our stock intake box perched between two combustion chambers  shedding heat - ends up baking the air charge prior to the intake valve opening.

Would wrapping in some reflective insulation which claim to reflect heat continuously up to 260°C & intermittently up to 400°C be worthwhile as in performance gains - or futile exercise?

1931E7DC-0493-4188-B6E0-14C46A3542AE.jpeg

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/1/2022 at 2:43 AM, ScuRoo said:

I found this short vid by Gale Banks (he sure knows a thing or two about pow-wuh!) with air density data interesting.

I often wonder on Ozzie summer days just to what degree our stock intake box perched between two combustion chambers  shedding heat - ends up baking the air charge prior to the intake valve opening.

Would wrapping in some reflective insulation which claim to reflect heat continuously up to 260°C & intermittently up to 400°C be worthwhile as in performance gains - or futile exercise?

1931E7DC-0493-4188-B6E0-14C46A3542AE.jpeg

Sorry no one else followed up on this last comment.

Personally I think insulating the stock airbox is a good idea. My Daytona had an airbox that was under the seat, not wrapping up and forward to the V of the engine. But I think overall the V11 airbox is a better design. But one drawback of the V11 design would be engine heat. Anything that slows the transfer of heat to the airbox should help reduce intake temps. Reducing intake air temps should help make more power. Will it transform a V11 into a fire breathing monster? No. That ain't gonna happen. But more power is good.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Back from ‘holiday’ GuzziMoto - so belated cheers. 🍻 

I actually found Gale’s data revealing. V11’s are faulted for having a mid-range hole - is there maybe more here than meets the eye

The power loss experienced by Gale’s 427ci sucking under hood air is 111 Hp - which is equivalent to almost 16 Hp per litre.

Now this hooded hot aired 550 Hp divided by 7 (as in 7L) is 78 Hp per Litre

Whilst ambient air 661 Hp divided by 7 is 94 Hp

Numbers somewhat in our 1L V-twins territory

Now I’m not postulating we would reduce Hp losses of 16 Hp here - or even halving that again @8 Hp.

But conservatively if we halve it again @4 Hp - that’s got to be up for consideration

Under hoods aren’t particularly hermetically sealed areas - all that open space betwixt engine bay & road - meaning it’s getting spoiled airflow too

Maybe our restricted pocket of air between tank & radiating finned cylinder’s is more detrimentally heated than we imagine? Are we overly assuming it’s quite the little refreshing wind tunnel in there when we’re moving along?

Might Gale consider the V11’s heated intake density ‘pure Jackassery’

D3BFD035-A94E-4A0E-B193-8FA5CD391576.jpeg

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First thing I did when I bought the 'Mighty Scura' was piss off the single plate clutch and reinstall a stock airbox.

That bike is sex on wheels.

Pod filters don't filter and are detrimental to performance.

Idiots claim ridiculous HP increases that aren't achievable and never mention the flobering lack of midrange and bottom end torque, even with the best, custom built map.

Far greater benefits can be achieved by spending money on suspension and brakes.

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8 hours ago, ScuRoo said:

Back from ‘holiday’ GuzziMoto - so belated cheers. 🍻 

I actually found Gale’s data revealing. V11’s are faulted for having a mid-range hole - is there maybe more here than meets the eye

The power loss experienced by Gale’s 427ci sucking under hood air is 111 Hp - which is equivalent to almost 16 Hp per litre.

Now this hooded hot aired 550 Hp divided by 7 (as in 7L) is 78 Hp per Litre

Whilst ambient air 661 Hp divided by 7 is 94 Hp

Numbers somewhat in our 1L V-twins territory

Now I’m not postulating we would reduce Hp losses of 16 Hp here - or even halving that again @8 Hp.

But conservatively if we halve it again @4 Hp - that’s got to be up for consideration

Under hoods aren’t particularly hermetically sealed areas - all that open space betwixt engine bay & road - meaning it’s getting spoiled airflow too

Maybe our restricted pocket of air between tank & radiating finned cylinder’s is more detrimentally heated than we imagine? Are we overly assuming it’s quite the little refreshing wind tunnel in there when we’re moving along?

Might Gale consider the V11’s heated intake density ‘pure Jackassery’

D3BFD035-A94E-4A0E-B193-8FA5CD391576.jpeg

If you are curious, add a temp sensor to the intake inside the airbox. You can get a datalogging temp sensor if you want, or you can just run a temp sensor that displays temp and read it. See how much warmer, if any, is the intake air temp vs the ambient air temp. It should be straight forward. If there is a difference in temps, you will see it. How large the difference is would indicate how big a difference it is making. For sure, warmer intake temps mean less hp. That is what it is. But if the intake air temp of a Guzzi isn't much higher than ambient air temp you aren't going to gain much from reducing it. On the other hand, if your intake air temp is 60 degrees warmer than ambient air temp or more there is clearly something to be gained there. And being temp, it is easy to measure. No point putting in the work to reduce intake temp before measuring to see if intake temp is an issue.

Side note, when you run a V8 with a forced induction like a roots style supercharger the supercharger leads to higher manifold / intake temps. At a point, adding more boost by running the blower faster raises manifold temps more than it increases boost, so that the gains from higher boost levels are offset by the losses from higher intake temps.. Running a fuel high in alcohol like E85 cools the intake air, dramatically lowering manifold temps. Measured boost levels may even decrease, because the cooler intake air is denser. But power goes up. A lot. Engine Masters, a tv show on Motor Trend Network, did a show on that where they run a V8 with a roots blower on different fuels, with and without an intercooler. The best combination is the blower on E85 as it cools the intake temps more than the intercooler. It even cools the intake temps below ambient air temp as I recall.

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