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European Union will make compulsory ISA (Intelligent Speed Assistance) on new cars from July 6th, 2022; Initially was only for cars, but they have changed their minds again!


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The UE is always inventive when it comes to imposing all kind of restrictions to vehicles. In 2019, they came up with the idea the smart cars should be able to know what is the posted speed limit on a road, and subdue your car to respect it. The system would take input from the GPS and whatever driving assistance installed. But any new car to be registered onward of July 6th should have it.

At this point, it can be disabled to compensate for likely malfunctions and errors. I think we can be certain that once the system works reasonably well, you wont be able to disable it.

When that idea came about in 2019, motorcycles were included. Motorcycle organizations quickly intervened and convinced the European Commission that on a motorcycle, interfering with the pilots ability to control the power of his bike would be dangerous and create a hazard.  The commission accepted the plea.

They changed their opinion, and want to have all motorcycles using the system by 2030, in order to reach the 2050 objective to have zero death on the European roads.

Combined with all the other announced restrictions, such as cities closing access to non EV, removal of parking spaces, interdiction to transit certain axes during week-ends, I think the times when we enjoyed taking to the road may soon only reside in our vanishing memories.... at this time, only in Europe. I don't see anything like this happening in the USA, or maybe only in cities with a dense public transportation. Such as Manhattan and the 5 Burroughs. Houston does not have any viable public transportation system to cover much more than the city center. It is spread so much, that it is simply unrealistic to have anything efficient organized.

Just to add to all the gloom happening at the moment.

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31 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

You lost me after you said, "I don't see anything this happening............"   I don't either.

In any case, this will not get implemented on our V11s. This is for the future motorcycles coming with onboard GPS, power delivery mappings and all the wizardry those difficult to source chips are enabling.

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Autonomous vehicle ride sharing is in use now. Those "cars" will obey traffic regulations. GM has plans to sell personal AV's this decade. Those cars will obey. Many existing autos are already equipped with enough tech to automatically generate violations. Coming digital human ID's could easily be used to deal with old and dirty vehicles. Some people are eager for AI to take over any aspect of human function. Being a Boomer has never felt better.

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I knew about the cars but not the motorcycles.

As I understand it initially you'll be able to switch it off but it will reset to default "Enabled" everytime the vehicle is started, I think we can all see the thin end of the wedge here.

Along with Euro 5, where the baffles are welded in and the ECUs locked (although there will be some "genius" somewhere that will figure ways I'm sure to get around that) motorcycles and combustion engines in general are gradually going to be subject to more onerous legislation.

Despite leaving the EU the UK is 99% certain to follow these rules too.

Add that to the low emissions zones being proposed in centres of population, which councils here in the UK are keen on to bolster their "Green" credentials but more importantly use as a cash cow to milk the motorists teets dry (the bad evil people that they are poisoning us all and ruining the planet).

Then we get to the latest wheeze where Paris is introducing noise "cameras" and anything greater than an arbitary decibel level gets a ticket. This will get taken up probably next by London followed by other major population centres.

Where I am a low emissions zone has ben announced, although what it entails and what the charges are I'm yet to find out.

The thing that gets my goat about it all is it's introduced retrospectively, it's not new vehicles but all vehicles that will be subject to these increasing draconian measures and things like "low emission zones" will charge people living within the zone. Currently I think London gives people living within the zone a discount, but they are still charged.

I find the whole thing pretty disgusting due its retrospective nature. When the IC engine only belongs to a small minority government are going to go after EVs, nothing is surer as there won't be enough IC engined vehicles to bleed white. Probably road pricing is on the cards, with those GPS systems installed it should be easy to track where you've went and when.

I'm not a fan of this brave new world, where we're gradually being smothered by safety regulations and zero road deaths as a target is just bloody stupid.

Then again I don't live in the rarified atmosphere of Brussels, Westminster or our own parliament here in Edinburgh I'm just left to quietly despair and thankful that soon it won't matter to me, in the meantime I intend to RIDE!!

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Los Angeles back in the 70's had horrific smog levels.  Look at many cities in China today...almost unbreathable for their citizens.

Some level of emissions controls are needed to provide a livable locale and not have to wear a filter over one's mouth just to breathe clean air or see the skyline.

However, the extreme level of monitoring and then actual intervention on driving/speed controls taking over the vehicle does invade our personal preferences much deeper than we are comfortable with...

I do find it ironic that Diesel cars, which I do like, and conceptually has been pushed so hard in Europe for decades is now considered one of the largest contributors to unbreathable air in these very same European cities which touted it in the first place.  Why not roll back the diesel incentives and force more hybrids or some % of electric vehicles that can help cut out the pollution, but still leave the autonomy of the driving to the driver.

I'm still pissed that VW (Porsche & Audi) falsified their emissions software just to try to meet deadlines, I had a lovely 2015 Passat TDI that I sold back to VW due to this fiasco.  It was a fantastic car...I could go from Houston to El Paso practically on 1 tank (almost 750 miles).  Who knows where it ended up...maybe offshore somewhere.

 

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If a car can truly drive itself, then drivers will not be so anxious about the time spent in transit. Imagine a self-driving van or wagon where you can go to sleep at home and wake up 8 hours later at your destination. Speed limit is totally fine for that. 

Commuters can plug in to their networked vehicles and be "productive" during the commute.

There will be some benefits. But if speeds are limited on motorcycles, I am going to cover a lot less distance in the same amount of time. That would suck. 

And just thinking out loud... if speeds are constrained to the posted limit, is there any way to accelerate and make a pass? Or are you stuck behind the lorry (truck) for the duration?

 

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Best idea, don't think about it, quarantee to ruin your day.     Can't wait for spring, even gas price mentioned this sommer 12.50 $ a gallon. Go figure, North sea is full of oil.

Cheers Tom.

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4 hours ago, Tomchri said:

Best idea, don't think about it, quarantee to ruin your day.     Can't wait for spring, even gas price mentioned this sommer 12.50 $ a gallon. Go figure, North sea is full of oil.

Cheers Tom.

Yup same thing up here in the great white north........... capped supplies everywhere.

I think they might all trade in the drilling platforms for strip mining equipment for the production of batteries for these so called pollution free electric thingies.           

:lol:           Ciao

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7 hours ago, Scud said:

If a car can truly drive itself, then drivers will not be so anxious about the time spent in transit. Imagine a self-driving van or wagon where you can go to sleep at home and wake up 8 hours later at your destination. Speed limit is totally fine for that. 

Commuters can plug in to their networked vehicles and be "productive" during the commute.

There will be some benefits. But if speeds are limited on motorcycles, I am going to cover a lot less distance in the same amount of time. That would suck. 

And just thinking out loud... if speeds are constrained to the posted limit, is there any way to accelerate and make a pass? Or are you stuck behind the lorry (truck) for the duration?

 

I'm all for that but it's not going to happen in our lifetime. Being from the aviation world I'm totally fine with automated control systems, BUT, you'll always have the driver as the responsibility holder just like a commercial pilot flying on auto pilot. There won't be any sleeping or watching movies while at the wheel and the driver will still be in a monitoring and control role. I'm a massive fan of active cruise control but I have friends that hate it. I explain to them that it's purpose is to relieve the driver of the mundane tasks of driving and reduce the fatigue that those tasks create so their concentration is more acute for controlling the more important aspects of being in control of a ton and a half of moving metal. Most don't see it though.

Ciao      

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I hear you Phil and agree the concept is laudable, but I have doubts on the outcomes, especially in the short term.

There have been incidents with automated systems in the avation sphere, where the high level of automation and complexity has lead to disastair or near disastair, Airbus spring to mind. These occured where there were not one but two individuals that had undergone rigorous training on these systems, yet still things went awry.

With vehicles everybody will be different, but automation that works sucessfully for well over 99% of the time will lull a large chunk of people into becoming too comfortable with the tech and rely on it. Texting, phoning, looking at the web on phones is already a considerable blight and I can't see it getting better if automation further reduces driver input. I stress it won't be everybody and it'll depend on the individual and the circumstances. I'm thinking about perhaps a lengthy commute home from the office (that you've done thousands of time before), you've had a long tiring day and perhaps the weather isn't the best. When the time comes to intervene the average driver will either be doing something else or be that shocked the tech has failed the accident will be a done deal.

Then again I'm a dinosaur, in aviation automation has certainly saved more lives than on the rare ocassion it has led to lives being lost. So in the long run automation will be a force for the better, but that doesn't stop concern about the downsides.

As for the ability to exceed the limit for short manoeuvers, I don't know but I'd be doubt it. Legislation is a large blunt stone axe and always results in unintended consequences. How it pans out we shall have to wait and see.

On noise, when (if?) the vast bulk of vehicles are electric, it will be interesting to review road accident stats, especially pedestrian injuries/fatalities. Back in the 50s and 60s Glasgow City Council (where I live) introduced Trolley Buses, electrically driven buses taking their power via overhead wires. I remember them and marvelled at the smoothness and lack of noise as a kid. No idea of the number of accidents they were responsible for but the locals very quickly named them "The whispering death"

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1 hour ago, footgoose said:

How does this relate to motorcycles? This is a scooter ridden on footpaths. A big issue here is the clowns that ride them don't have a brain so can't be trusted to apply common efing sense when riding around pedestrians.

Ciao

 

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4 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

How does this relate to motorcycles? This is a scooter ridden on footpaths. A big issue here is the clowns that ride them don't have a brain so can't be trusted to apply common efing sense when riding around pedestrians.

Ciao

 

Possibly I have a different world view than you. It's evident that AV trucks and personal vehicles have a foothold on society. Now scooters. Soon, every g-d thing a human can operate. I'm just providing a 2 day old article showing evidence that the camel has his nose under the edge of the tent. Soon the camel will be inside the tent.

I think motorcycles will likely be among the last mode to suffer the really serious AV or green bullshit mandates. People have to get around, and much of the world's population travels by scooter (actual scooters not those hipster child sidewalk scooters) so we have some time. But time will tell.

Since the beginning of motorcycling, our lifestyle/choice has been a clear reflection of individualism. Rugged individualism (Yes I said it). Some embrace it. Others, sorry to say, don't give a hoot about how much fun we have, and will eventually be coming for us, for our own good of course.

I'm surprised you don't make the connection to the future of motorcycles. They've been telling us the plan for a long time and I just see this as them slowly doing it.

Much nuance is lost in keyboard forum chats. If we were several thousand miles closer :drink:

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2 minutes ago, footgoose said:

Possibly I have a different world view than you. It's evident that AV trucks and personal vehicles have a foothold on society. Now scooters. Soon, every g-d thing a human can operate. I'm just providing a 2 day old article showing evidence that the camel has his nose under the edge of the tent. Soon the camel will be inside the tent.

I think motorcycles will likely be among the last mode to suffer the really serious AV or green bullshit mandates. People have to get around, and much of the world's population travels by scooter (actual scooters not those hipster child sidewalk scooters) so we have some time. But time will tell.

Since the beginning of motorcycling, our lifestyle/choice has been a clear reflection of individualism. Rugged individualism (Yes I said it). Some embrace it. Others, sorry to say, don't give a hoot about how much fun we have, and will eventually be coming for us, for our own good of course.

I'm surprised you don't make the connection to the future of motorcycles. They've been telling us the plan for a long time and I just see this as them slowly doing it.

Much nuance is lost in keyboard forum chats. If we were several thousand miles closer :drink:

Not saying the world is going to remain static with regards to motorcycles but I live with the electric scooter and public electric pushbike bullshit in my city. Electric pushbikes available to the public to rent and transit to wherever they want is a total failure with bikes dumped anywhere and the helmets they come with littering the streets. So many dickheads here it's pointless. Personally I believe the future will be a mix of ICE and EV's. Porsche is already building a synthetic fuel manufacturing facility as we speak. 

Currently there is a thread on wild Guzzi asking what you'd ride if you couldn't ride a Guzzi and nobody has mentioned wanting an EV, even the EV fanboys that jumped on the woke train 6 months ago. Personally I'm a recalcitrant and will not succeed to the big brother mentality which I already do. 

Ciao   

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