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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, gstallons said:

p6x . If you get this going and find metal on the drain plug and in the oil , I personally would shop for a used rear drive assy.  Plug n play is a lot better than hope. What lubricant are you using ?

I am going to open that pont arrière. I think this is the next step.

I would like to avoid installing used spares with missing history.

 

 

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Edited by p6x
Posted

This is how it is supposed to look when new....

30354602.jpg?v=1673644205

  • Like 1
Posted
20 hours ago, p6x said:

I did 10 miles on I-10 following yesterday's oil change.

Here's the oil drain plug;

I am going to have to open le pont arrière.

497618009_10162559930572510_643978920235

After reading a lot of literature about that same subject on the web, I have decided to repeat the fill with fresh oil, short run, and check.

See if the amount of burrs changes one way or the other.

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

IDK how much the oil costs but I'd do it again in 100 miles because you are getting the wash of the interior of the assy. 

 I assume you are saving this fluid and "shavings" from the drain plug ?

Edited by gstallons
more info
  • Like 2
Posted
8 hours ago, gstallons said:

IDK how much the oil costs but I'd do it again in 100 miles because you are getting the wash of the interior of the assy. 

 I assume you are saving this fluid and "shavings" from the drain plug ?

The oil cost is peanuts compared to replacing the ring gear and the pinion. I found a used one on eBay, for 200 USD. But it looks rough, and the seller says he was unable to tell me the mileage.

I am saving the drained oil. The shavings are not much different from those I have gotten before on other oil changes.

 

  • Like 3
Posted

One aspect that is difficult to interpret is the amount of metal on the drain magnet in 50-100 miles versus what we expect at the typical change interval (12,000 miles?).

If we see 12,000 miles worth of wear in a very short time, that could be telling.

Also, if the hardening of the gear teeth has been damaged from overheating, the wear may accelerate (more and more debris at short intervals). This may be detectable without fully changing the oil every time, but inspecting and cleaning the drain magnet routinely.

Certainly, if the size and nature of the debris changes from the typical "filings" to larger pieces and flakes, the damage to the engagement surfaces would be suspect . . .

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  • Like 5
Posted

That drain magnet is telling me to move on. I would not risk a rear wheel lockup giving your scene of events. You are hesitant to do a rear pull and replace because you don't know where the rear came from? Well, you can say that about any 25 year old used machine. Who really knows what the bikes real history is. If you are dealing with reputable MG shops, they might know the history. You're right, it's a gamble, always is. I can go with only what I know, that rear is shot.

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Posted
4 hours ago, docc said:

Certainly, if the size and nature of the debris changes from the typical "filings" to larger pieces and flakes, the damage to the engagement surfaces would be suspect . . .

A saying from old timers who worked on Pratt and Whitney radial engines; "if you can read a part number on chips in the filter, its time to pull the engine"

Not helpful I know,  but a great story. 😀 

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Posted
4 hours ago, p6x said:

The oil cost is peanuts compared to replacing the ring gear and the pinion. I found a used one on eBay, for 200 USD. But it looks rough, and the seller says he was unable to tell me the mileage.

I am saving the drained oil. The shavings are not much different from those I have gotten before on other oil changes.

 

Used what for $200.  Ring & pinion or assy. ?  A used rear assy. Sure . As long as it has the original oil , I would drain the fluid and inspect it and look at the drain plug for chips and bad stuff BEFORE purchasing it.

 Just to clarify , you rode this bike for 200 miles w/no lube in the rear final drive assy. T or F 

Posted

Look, as I keep saying. If you want confirmation? Just pull the bevelbox and pull out the pinion carrier and pinion. You wouldn’t hesitate to pull the back wheel if you had a flat tire would you? Well it’s the same deal and then four more nuts that hold the bevelbox on.

Once it’s on the bench all that is required to pull out the pinion carrier is to separate the flange from the casing. Sometimes it will simply pull out with a tug on the pinion. Sometimes you need to give the flange a couple of biffs with a hammer and drift to get it to separate a bit and then you can pry it forward until it comes loose and you can pull it out. Once it’s out the head of the pinion is staring you in the face.

All these bevelboxes are essentially the same. All the way through from the T3 to the last of the California 1100’s. Yes there are differences in the lengths of the spacers in the box and these are easily swapped, then there was a change in about 2002 to the depth of the spline spigot in the crownwheel carrier, your Quota will need one of the earlier type. Apart from that the earlier Tonti boxes had 7/33 gear sets rather than the 8/33 of the Quota and of course the case has a shock mount on it whereas yours has a rubber bung filling the hole.

Older Cali bevelboxes must be ten a penny in the US. Mark at Guzzi Classics probably has a dozen of them! If this had happened to me I’d just be buying a Cali box, checking it was sound and sticking it on. There is no need for it to be a Quota bevelbox.

I can’t stress strongly enough. If you did ride 200 miles without oil there will be serious damage and you are taking a great risk riding it further. It will not of escaped unscathed.

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Posted

I changed the oils in my Quota last week, just went out and double checked my drain plugs, my bgb was about a 1/4 turn short of torque spec. So thanks.

Maybe someone mentioned this and I missed it, but can you take temperature measurements on it after rides to help diagnose health? Or slop/free play in the wheel to check for excess wear?

  • Thanks 1
Posted

On a healthy bevelbox the temperature of the unit is going to vary greatly depending on both ambient temperature and how hard/fast the machine has been ridden. One with issues will generally run a lot hotter.

As far as ‘Slop’ or backlash is concerned any backlash you can feel by turning the wheel fore and aft with the bike in gear and the engine off will be between the dogs in the gearbox and not the bevelbox where backlash is measured in thou.

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Posted
On 5/21/2025 at 12:01 PM, HRC_V4 said:

I changed the oils in my Quota last week, just went out and double checked my drain plugs, my bgb was about a 1/4 turn short of torque spec. So thanks.

Maybe someone mentioned this and I missed it, but can you take temperature measurements on it after rides to help diagnose health? Or slop/free play in the wheel to check for excess wear?

I've measured mine a few times with different gear oils- never had the opportunity during a good high-speed long thrashing, but in 'spirited' riding my rear drive has been between 135-170* depending on specific conditions and oil choice.
A rule of thumb is that if you can keep your hand on the item in question for more than 5 seconds the temperature is below 150*. 

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)
On 5/15/2025 at 10:10 PM, activpop said:

That drain magnet is telling me to move on. I would not risk a rear wheel lockup giving your scene of events. You are hesitant to do a rear pull and replace because you don't know where the rear came from? Well, you can say that about any 25 year old used machine. Who really knows what the bikes real history is. If you are dealing with reputable MG shops, they might know the history. You're right, it's a gamble, always is. I can go with only what I know, that rear is shot.

The seller is taking wrecked or disabled motorcycles, break them down to eBay the parts. That is his occupation, and he was honest in telling me he had no idea.

This is not an MG specialist. He just makes a living out of selling parts.

It is cheap enough that I could purchase it anyhow.

I have been waiting for more oil. Reason tells that I should change everything, as a matter of precaution.

I do not think the rear wheel would lock up because of a drive pinion worn down prematurely. Since I had my 996 IMS changed, I had the opportunity to discuss the reason why those bearings failed.

A lock-up would most likely be caused by the bearings. I am going to get to the bottom of it.

 

Edited by p6x
Posted
On 5/15/2025 at 11:24 PM, gstallons said:

Used what for $200.  Ring & pinion or assy. ?  A used rear assy. Sure . As long as it has the original oil , I would drain the fluid and inspect it and look at the drain plug for chips and bad stuff BEFORE purchasing it.

 Just to clarify , you rode this bike for 200 miles w/no lube in the rear final drive assy. T or F 

It's the carter of the ring gear and pinion.

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