Fuel pump issue?

[Tom in Virginia]

I'll try to keep this short and to the point. 

2002 LeMans.  Stock bike with very minor exceptions, as received from factory.  Although sitting most of the time, I do run it occasionally (but trying not to run up mileage... I know that sounds kind of stupid but have my go-to '03 for that).

In the process of moving my bikes to new home in mountains, I started '02 and rode for maybe 5 minutes before loading into the trailer.  Relocated to mountains 2 days later, unloaded and tried to start '02.  No start. 

When I energize the key, I hear the 4&5 relays cycle like normal.  No accompanying fuel pump noise.  (Note: Good cranking power (new 545 Odyssey), Omron relays.)  All fuses checked "SAT", swapped around relays, no issues with fuses identified and normal cycling of relays noted.  Swapped in spare (new) Omron relays just in case.  Still no change. 

Would you think I have a bad fuel pump or might the issue possibly be somewhere else?

(I have done my forum home work, spending a lot of time looking for similar topic posts and reviewing electrical schematics within forum posts) , but have not uncovered this specific problem but probably more my lack of using proper terms for searches.)

Thanks to all in advance!  Tom in VA

 

Edited May 14 by Tom in Virginia
add reference to electrical schematics

[gstallons]

The + and - terminals  to the pump are easy (in very small letters) to access . Find the + terminal and have your favorite friend turn the key on while you are testing the + terminal w/a good test light. This should come on for two seconds and go off. The pump should energize and run. If the pump does NOT run , it is a 99% chance it is the pump. My wiring diagrams are out in the shop so I can't say for sure which relay powers the pump. 

[Tom in Virginia]

46 minutes ago, gstallons said:

The + and - terminals  to the pump are easy (in very small letters) to access . Find the + terminal and have your favorite friend turn the key on while you are testing the + terminal w/a good test light. This should come on for two seconds and go off. The pump should energize and run. If the pump does NOT run , it is a 99% chance it is the pump. My wiring diagrams are out in the shop so I can't say for sure which relay powers the pump. 

Great I will check it out.  And thanks a bunch!  I was hoping to ride to VA MG Brunch on Saturday but may have to be my red "Stallion".  

Edited May 14 by Tom in Virginia

[Tom in Virginia]

Here's the schematic I was looking at.  Between Relay 5 and wire off of the ECU.  Now I just have to find the pump if it is different than my '03.

Edited May 14 by Tom in Virginia
clarification

[GuzziMoto]

As mentioned, step one to me would be see if I have power at the pump. If I have power at the pump (and ground) and it doesn't run I likely have a pump issue. If I have no power at the pump, it could be a relay issue, a safety issue (like sidestand / neutral switch), or an issue with the ECU not telling the pump to run. No doubt there are other possible reason for the pump to not be told to run.  But step one is determine if power is going to the pump and then to ground.

Edited May 14 by GuzziMoto

[gstallons]

After looking at the diagram , relay #5 controls the fuel pump , injectors and ign.

coils . 

[GuzziMoto]

13 minutes ago, gstallons said:

After looking at the diagram , relay #5 controls the fuel pump , injectors and ign.

coils . 

A classic relay issue was turn the key on and the fuel pump doesn't run. The wifes V11 did that shortly after she bought her V11. She turned it off at a gas station and when she went to start it the bike would not start. The fuel pump did not run when you turned the key on. Turned out it was the relays. The OP said they swapped relays, but that doesn't mean the issue isn't the relay or the relay base. It could also be the relay is holding out the fuel pump for a reason. I could be wrong but I thought I remembered there being a safety where if the side stand was down and the bike was in gear (i.e. not in neutral) the fuel pump would only run if the clutch was in. But I am not sure and am not in front of one to check.

But before you get too far of into the weeds, is there power at the pump? If yes, no point tracing power to the pump. If not, you have to figure out why not.

Edited May 14 by GuzziMoto

[Weegie]

Just to add that Relay 5 has a very hard life powering all that equipment

If I were a betting man it's where I'd put my money on which relay will fail first

But as @GuzziMoto logical first step is to check for voltage at the pump

[activpop]

37 minutes ago, Weegie said:

If I were a betting man it's where I'd put my money on which relay will fail first

 

Yep, I had the same problem. Turned out it was Relay 5. Easy fix! What I did find out though as I looked closer was the female terminals on the back of the relay block were not secure in place as they could be. I think that pushing and pulling over time loosened their footing. I pressed all of them in to be sure, and applied a little Deoxit to the relay spades before gently pushing them back in. I'm not sure if the relay blew from old age or not having a secure connection.  All is well now. 

[audiomick]

Good advice here. I'm also for checking if the pump is getting power before delving in to other possible problems.

[Tom in Virginia]

Thanks for all the input guys!  It still amazes me that my little problem can have such helpful technical input in very short turnaround from all across the world!  Kentucky, Oregon, Maryland, Germany and Scotland.  V11 LeMans is probably one of my most treasured websites.  And thanks to all who keep it up and running!  

I'll post my cause/corrective action once it is determined.

Edited May 15 by Tom in Virginia

[gstallons]

Same here . If it weren't for this site and members , my bike would have been The H.L. Hunley of the 21st Century !

[Tom in Virginia]

I was poking around looking at the external fuel pump and the two electrical connection points.  Noted a drop or 2 of fuel come out of what appeared to be one of the electrical connections.  Does not appear to be the fuel hose connected to that end of the pump.  Unusual (and possibly frightening).

Anyone ever noticed this and if so, any guess as to what is happening here.  Would it be likely that the internal seals/lining of the pump has deteriorated due to age?

I am assuming best course of action would be to just go ahead and order a new pump which is easy.

[GuzziMoto]

It can be hard to tell where exactly the leak starts, it is hard to imagine that it started at the electrical connections. But a fuel leak in your fuel pump is bad, unless it is at either the fuel line in or the fuel line out it seems like replacing would be a good idea.

[gstallons]

13 hours ago, Tom in Virginia said:

I was poking around looking at the external fuel pump and the two electrical connection points.  Noted a drop or 2 of fuel come out of what appeared to be one of the electrical connections.  Does not appear to be the fuel hose connected to that end of the pump.  Unusual (and possibly frightening).

Anyone ever noticed this and if so, any guess as to what is happening here.  Would it be likely that the internal seals/lining of the pump has deteriorated due to age?

I am assuming best course of action would be to just go ahead and order a new pump which is easy.

Well , brother , it probably is coming from the electrical connectors . I do know it is leaking from mine too.  Also , get and use High pressure fuel line and use high pressure hose clamps. These type of clamps have a metal band inside of the clamp to keep from "crushing" and squeezing the rubber from out of the clamp.

 Everything you do to your bike requires perfection. In parts , labor , attention to detail . EVERYTHING . If you have ever done maintenance on aircraft , watercraft  , heavy equipment , etc. you know how important your work is .  

love your bike and give it your best !