[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

6 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

How the hell does that happen? I mean 2mm!!!!

 

Ciao

no idea the parts came straight from guzzi and where made to order , the mechanic is going to Itali this weak and has taken the parts to try and get to the bottom of it !!!

i will keep you updated with the out come . 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

Just a quick update the gear box is now sorted after sourcing a new old stock recall kit from America. The ones fitted from Moto guzzi where 2 mm to thick not slowing the gears to be Selected a massive thank you for everybody’s input on trying to find the problem . 

The bikes all back together and hoping to get an mot . 

Regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

On 4/29/2019 at 10:53 PM, Lucky Phil said:

Bummer. Be interesting to see what those sleeves are from.

Ciao

I will keep you updated with progress thank you all for your help . 

Kind regards Tony 

[Stock V11 Sport 2001 bin file]

Hi guys sorry it gate crash the thread but how do you remap a 2000 v11 ? If say I wanted to fit cone filters ? 

Kindest regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

5 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Mine is a 2002 gearbox so it wasn't affected by the recall. From a little research it seems the original problem with the sleeves was a hardening issue not a dimensional one but that's not definitive and I haven't any pre mod sleeves to look at. 

The only other transmission that uses the V11 six speed is the MGS-01 and I dont know what the sleeve looks like in those only that the part number is different. I still think it would be preferable to strip the trans and install the correct sleeves rather than machine the selector wheels though for several reasons.

Ciao 

Hi , thank you for confirming the age of your gear box and taking the time to check your gearbox . It has been very helpful and you have confirmed that the dogs in mine are not correct , and the gear box will have to come out and go back to be stripped back down to replace them . 

Its frustrating as the wether has picked up hear and I had got it ready for an mot,  and I guess I’m looking at 2 months at least before this is sorted !! 

I will keep you all updated with progress. 

Thanks again , 

kind regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

10 hours ago, ready180a said:

Thanks for that, 

I have measured the original ones that came out and they tally up with what yours  are . 

I will have another check tonight in side the gear box and post back . 

Regards Tony 

After having a fresh look and measure tonight the newly fitted drive dogs are 22mm overall and 12.6mm on the minor thickness . 

When you measured yours did you check your old parts of the current ones in your gear box ? . 

Trying to get to the bottom of the problem isn’t so easy . 

Thanks for your help 

tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

7 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Here's an image of my gearbox sleeve fully engaged in 3rd gear. The minor width of the sleeve is 10.4 mm and the major across the dog faces is 20.00 mm.

From the parts manual all the part numbers for all versions from 99-2007 are the same the 3,4,5,6 sleeves (2 off) are 04214900 and the 1,2 (2 off) are 04213900. The MGS-01 are both different.

Ciao

Thanks for that, 

I have measured the original ones that came out and they tally up with what yours  are . 

I will have another check tonight in side the gear box and post back . 

Regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

On 4/27/2019 at 12:47 AM, Lucky Phil said:

You need to get to the core of the issue which is why the drive dog or "hose" as the manual calls it appears to be too thick. Trying to grind the selector tracks to suit will not only be near on impossible but isnt dealing with the real reason for the problem.

I doubt that an extra 2mm on the width of the drive sleeve or "hose" would be an issue anyway as that 2mm extra overall is 1mm each direction of movement and most transmissions have enough play in them that they when correctly adjusted they dont actually fully engage the dogs anyway but rely on the slight undercut to pull the dogs into full engagement. So its not unusual for the drive sleeve or the actual gear itself with its integral dogs to be a couple of mm short of total engagement when shifted on the bench. On a Ducati box you shim the shafts to try and even out this but its a compromise and as I mentioned when the clutch is released the slight undercut on each dog finishes the job of pulling the dogs into full engagement.

The additional 2mm of width if in fact that's the case could well be where the additional strength of the drive sleeve is compared to the original. 

I'd be looking for another reason myself. I could measure the drive sleeve width for you so you can compare it with yours. How are you measuring the width? I dont think you can get a set of calipers in there or a mike.

 

Ciao

Hi thank you  for taking the time to reply , to modify the track would be no problem for my self , you wouldn’t grind it I would hard mettle machine it . (I’m a tool maker so am lucky to have the skills and tool at my finger tips ) 

That aside after a closer look it wouldn’t work any way , as due to the extra thickness of the dogs it seams to have reduced  the clearance when in neutral to around .5 mm aside between the gears and dog . 

regarding measuring I would class it a ruff measurement but well with in .2mm using a set of dividers due to the access issue .

2.6 mm thicker overall . 

if you select 3rd and then remove the preselector plate the drive dog is up tight to 3rd gear and will not pass past the peak of the selector track meaning the dog is just to wide . . ? 

With the clearance issue , selector issue and thickness issue it all points to the drive dog  being to thick. 

I really don’t want to take the box back out .

it would be fantastic if you could measure yours (if it’s had the recall or is newer than 2003) . As it would give me something to compare to . 

Kindest regards Tony 

 

 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

Hi guys I have came to the bottom of the problem the gear box drive dogs (the ones replaced in the recall)  are around 2mm to thick causing it to jam against the gear and not allow the preselector past the dowel on the selector fork . 

So I have a problem where I can put the old ones back and have a ticking time bom  or try and modify the preselector track to slow it to pass by the selector fork . 

Leading me to ask wether any one would possibly have a set of preselector gears I could by from them ? 

Kindest regards Tony

[V11 6speed gear box]

Hi I am looking to see if I can get hold of a v11 6speed gearbox 

Any help is appreciated

kindest regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

Only due to some one else on the forum having a similar problem and when they when they went for a ride it was working ok . ( I’m clutching on straws hear) 

yes the gear box had the recall done to it a couple of months ago and I am just re assembling it . 

I cant see anything wrong inside though . 

Regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

Thanks for all he reply’s and advice guys , 

unfortunately I have  not been able to  fix the problem and can not shift past 3rd gear the leaver just goes solid like it’s hitting something in side the box . 

Maybe it’s worth just trying it out on the open road ? 

Any advice ? 

 

Kind regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

On 4/24/2019 at 6:02 AM, ready180a said:

Thank you for taking the time to reply , as far as I know the preselector wasn’t touched during the rebuild Would it be likely you have to adjust it to suit the new drive dogs ? 

Tony 

Hi mate , I have removed the pre selector again and believed to have adjusted it so it’s now correct and seams to be working ok but not when fitted back to the bike .

From your experience do you think it would be of benefit to try it out on the open road ? . 

Regards Tony  

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

37 minutes ago, GuzziMoto said:

Before you blame the insides of the transmission I would make sure the external linkage isn't binding on anything. The distance the lever moves to change gears is not the same between all the gears, it seems to have to move farther as you go to higher gears. This can cause an issue with the linkage binding that was not there when shifting between the lower gears.

KISS. Check the simple stuff first.

no blame has been had hear , just trying to find a solution unfortunately it’s not the linkage I can take it off and operate  it by hand and still get the same results . 

 

Regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

52 minutes ago, Steve S said:

Sounds like you have a problem with the ratchet arm not dropping onto the pins, I've seen this on at least 2 bikes and found the solution, the selector cover will need to come off and a small mod with a file

 That sounds like a good thing to at least try ? Would you be able to elaborate on what I would need to modify? 

 regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

50 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

No it shouldn't need adjusting after updating but it's worth checking as people have been known to fiddle with it anyway to try and improve the shift action. It seems you don't actually know how the box shifted before it was pulled down and updated, is that right?

it sounds like the selector is over shifting the drive sleeve and jamming the selector arm and not allowing it to release so it can be in position to engage the selector wheel pin for the next gear.

does your gearbox selector assembly have the second smaller accentric adjustment for the selector arm? 

I suspect it doesn't as its too early but you never know. If it does that could also be in the frame as a cause.

ciao

 

Hi, I have contact with the original owner and he has confirmed that the gear box had no faults with it except it needing the recall done . 

Unfortunately it doesn’t have the extra adjustment on the selector arm just the fixed roll pin .  

Insee what your saying with regards to it over shifting . I have shifted it to 3rd and then removed the cover to see exactly what’s going on but it doesn’t appear to be any problem in there but it is hard to see . 

I really am hoping I haven’t got to take the gear box back out as it’s a big job . 

Regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

5 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Sounds like the main shift eccentric stop is out of adjustment. Check out the V11 shift improvement sticky thread and pull the selector assembly off and adjust it on the bench. Don't attempt it on the bike.

ciao

 

[docc/edit/link: V11 Shift improvement in "How To . . ."

Thank you for taking the time to reply , as far as I know the preselector wasn’t touched during the rebuild Would it be likely you have to adjust it to suit the new drive dogs ? 

Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

4 hours ago, czakky said:

Might be hard to see with the starter in the way but if you’re way off you’ll know

Hi thanks for the heads up and photo my adjuster rod looks to be adjusted longer than yours in the picture 

Have you Changed yours ? 

 

Tony  

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

Just now, stewgnu said:

You haven’t nipped up the long allen bolt on the lever have you?   It wants a wee bit o slop in it or it binds.  Which is a bind.

Thank you for your reply , I have checked this and it’s ok . It’s like it hits something solid and just won’t lift up in to 4th . Such a shame I just want to ride the dam thing !!! . 

Regards Tony 

[Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11]

Hi I have recently brought a 2000 v11 rosso mandello from a good friend, to cut a long story short I brought the bike in bits to restore/ reassemble but it hadent had the gear box recall done . I tracked down a well  known guzzi specialist who was willing to take on the job . 

I now have the bike reassembled (with the recall being done on the gearbox) but I can’t get it in to 4th gear with out tapping the gear leaver down slightly and then quickly pulling it up . (It is smooth in to 1st , 2nd and 3rd Abd once past 4th it’s smooth in to ,5th and 6th . 

I have taken the preselector plate off and can change the gears in the box in the correct order by moving the forks and can run the selector plate through all 6 gears and neutral smoothly . But when assembled it’s the same. 

Does any one have any advice or tips on what could be causing this ? 

Kind regards Tony