Hansson
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Posts posted by Hansson
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I highly recommend the "stahlbus" bleeder valve. Works absolutely amazing! High quality. If you use these valves together with stahlbus "auxilary vacuum filling and bleeding device", bleeding will go very easily. Without spilling and messing up.
On my bike: Front - M8x1,25x16mm
Rear - M10x1,0x16mm
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1cTu58Dx28vX1owTVNnMU1ucWs
Take a look at their website!
http://www.stahlbus.com/products/en/bleeding-system/index.php
https://www.stahlbus.de/lng/en/bleeding-system/bleeder-valve/conical-sealing-standardtype/
http://www.stahlbus.com/info/en/products/product-overview
Cheers
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Thanks guys for a positive respons
Here's a simple snapshot for you Scud, taken two days ago. Chuck, you have to wait until it gets warmer outside..
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I've now managed to silence the clattering noise!
The reason was as I suspected.. Too big backlash at the center of the (new!) friction plates. I decided to order new plates made by "Newfren", in the hope that they would be tight in the splines, but not even these were as tight as the old "AP". Now there are new clutch facing, taken from the new "Newfren" plates, mounted on the old AP clutch plates. The Newfren plates are 8,3 millimeters thick so I've let grind the plates to 8,0 millimeters.
Yesterday I started the motorcycle for the first time after working on it, and found to my great delight the silence
!! Today I did the first test trip and everything sounds and works perfect!Welcome, this year's season! It's time for many amazing miles on the road
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I think I've found the cause, from where the noise comes. There is backlash between the gears of first gear.
I'm not so sure about this anymore.. I had a conversation with the gearbox guru Rolf Halvorsen, and he says that the movements and sounds of the gearbox is normal.
In the search for the cause of the noise, I found another backlash. It's in the splines of the clutch friction plate. And there is more backlash in the newer replaced plates than in the old original plates, which have been running around 30,000 kilometers. It seems that the new plates are not as precisely produced, with accurate tolerance, as the original AP plates. Take a look at yet another video (Full Screen). Perhaps it's difficult to see how much difference the backlash between the plates is, but I see it as substantial.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1cTu58Dx28vbmlYN1QyVlJUSjA
I just re listened to your video and your bike sounds just like mine, flick the clutch quickly and it stops clattering for a bit when the plates realign and then after you cycle the clutch it starts up again. Meh, mines been doing it since day 1. I'd forget the gearbox and go with the Aluminium flywheel. MartyNZ made some valid technical points about aluminium as a material but its mostly irrelevent in the grand scheme of things with regard to the flywheel. A bit like the argument about how bad telescopic front forks are, technically valid but more honoured in the breach than the observance, so to speak. Ducatis have used aluminium baskets as have Japanese bikes for many years and fatigue failure is not a realistic worry. Neither is wear really with the exception of the dry clutch Ducatis and even then they last for 30,000 or so Klms before replacement. The Guzzi however has far more toothed surface area so its life would be many times greater. Besides unless you spend all your time commuting or towing a sidecar around then the std flywheel assy is a massivly heavy joke and needs to be ditched for something lighter. Even the lightest V11 flywheel is in my opinion way too heavy.
Ciao
Thanks Lucky Phil, for your positive response. Just what I want to hear..
You confirm in a good way my own thoughts about aluminum flywheels for Guzzis (as thoughts of other manufacturers clutch baskets, and the toothed surface).
Pete Roper has valuable references that should puncture discussions about the unsuitability of using aftermarket aluminum flywheels
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I can't see how the tranny gears can make the noise in your original video. More than likely the clutch/flywheel. BUT, I would advise a friend to do what Pete Roper suggests -First and always-.
If you are referring to this footgoose.. The TB balance, AFR balance, valve clearance and idle speed is super tuned. Recently run in bench. The compression is perfect and in balance.
Can't you see Pete Ropers explanation "Any 'Knock' will most likely be the primaries in the gearbox flogging to and fro as the input shaft accelerates and decelerates with the crank." ?
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Update.
I think I've found the cause, from where the noise comes. There is backlash between the gears of first gear. There is also a small backlash between the gears of the second gear. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1cTu58Dx28vTmFlY2lkVEl0aFE
This, I think, may be due to worn gear and/or worn needle bearings. There is no visible wear on the gears, but tolerance is perhaps small. I suppose it's difficult to measure the wear on the gears. I don't think the gears should be worn after just 34000 kilometers (21250 miles). The gearbox oil has been changed regularly every year. If I want to replace gears and needle bearings, it will be costly. Around 1200 euros. If I'm right, you can't buy gear for the first gear on the input shaft itself, so you have to buy a complete primary gear shaft assembly. This shaft will cost 680 euros. But I might take a chance on, only replace needle bearings.
The flywheel, I will probably replace with a beautiful Ergal aluminum flywheel. Price about 500 euros.
Of course I will also replace the clutch gear, although it is not particularly worn.
I must admit that I'm little about to lose hope of this bike/make. Bad quality of parts and/or poor construction? Having to dismantle half the bike just to get access to the clutch or gear box is not fun... Don't try to come up with "there's no need to do that often."
But yes, I also love the bike !!Ciao
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While getting my order together with Harpers and checking status, learned about 2 parts that are no longer available from Moto Guzzi. One trivial, one important.
The trivial one - the plastic T that holds all the warning lights. You know that white T-shaped things that can't seem to hold the threaded inserts and just crumbles when you take it apart? No more of those... This is not too much trouble as they can be repaired with various epoxies, bondo, glues, etc. and they don't have to look good since they are hidden inside the instrument cluster.
I suppose it's the T-shaped part with Guzzi Code GU 02766300 you're talking about? You can buy it at Stein-Dinse for € 17.18.
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Complete-partlist/Unsorted/Indicator-light-box-Cal-EV::2463.html
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I replaced the output shaft seal on my Ballabio -04 preventively when I did work on the gearbox. There was no leakage in the stock seal at 30000 kilometers. Make sure you get a seal with dust lip!
HMB Germany, sell the right seal. It's not a directional seal. And I think it's a Viton seal.
http://hmb-guzzi.de/Seal-Ring-gearbox-output-shaft-V11
Cheers
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At some point you'll have to decide whether to take it out for inspection or to ride it. I hate those decisions...
Are you certain that all the springs are in correctly and that everything is properly tightened?
Yes, it is exactly as you say Scud. I also hate those situations!! I did the work to replace the clutch at the start of the season and made the decision to ride the bike. I actually rode to the end of the season. The knocking noise has not changed over time, and yes it started after the clutch job.
I also replaced the springs with new ones at the clutch replacement. I'm pretty sure that the springs are correctly fitted and that everything is properly tightened.
I have done the "put your ear to a dowel trick" without success to locate the noise.
Have you put it in gear and let out the clutch? Does it engage and go through the gears?
The noise goes through gear one to six, and in neutral.
There is one point (in addition to the clutch is pulled in) when the noise is silenced, and that's when the bike is driving. Or when the bike is lifted on the paddock stand, engine run in gear and I brakes lightly. I think that exclude faulty throwout bearing.
I told about the worn flywheel, and here is a pic of it.
There was no noise before I replaced the clutch even though the flywheel was worn, but maybe the changed position of the intermediate plate and the clutch pressure plate due to new thicker friction plates has something to do with the noise problem?
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After I changed the friction plates and the steel intermediate plate and sealed the leaking gearbox, there are a tapping sound somewhere around the gearbox and clutch. I can't locate the noise. It's possible to silence the noise, if you quickly engage the clutch. But after a while occur the tapping sound again.
The splines on flywheel is a bit worn. Could that be the reason? Maybe the intermediate plate and the clutch pressure plate strikes the flywheel in it's worn splines and make the noise? The clutch gear is in good condition. Or is the sound coming from the gearbox? Please tell me if you have experience of that sound, or an idea to the cause.
Open the link and listen! (You hear when I engage the clutch)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1cTu58Dx28vVFIyS0hkejdqYlU
Ciao
Jörgen
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Some tips..
1: Don't lose the small washer that will sit at the end of the odometer transmission shaft. The arrow indicates where it should be, but you can't see it because it will probably remain in the gearbox housing.
And don't forget to reassemble it!
2: Try to get the same (or similar) rotary shaft seals that sits originally fitted to the main shaft and the transmission shaft. I recommend (Corteco) Viton rotary shaft seals with a dust lip.
Viton seals withstands high temperatures and will hopefully last longer.
3: When mounting the rotary shaft seal for the main shaft, be careful not to press it too deep, because then maybe it doesn't seal against the shaft. Note how the old it sits before you remove it!
In my opinion, ThreeBond 1215 is the best sealant for works like this.
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Hi Anders
I suggest you contact Tom Stålebrant at Italia Bike Center, in Arboga. He is capable of doing miracles with the power curve on a Guzzi, by remapping the ECU and correct the AFR. So you don't have to use an Power Commander. Thus, less equipment that may @#!#$# up
. Of course, you need to run the bike on their Dyno during remap. -
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Could this post be helpful for your choice?
www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11564#entry122911
"Posted 12 June 2007 - 06:08 AM
My wife's out of town, and we had both the Stucchi and Mistral crossovers in stock, so I took the set home to try for the weekend and gather some impressions. Previously, I had had an FBF crossover on my bike and had liked the top-end rush it facitlitated. Then, because the FBF crackes, I switched back to the stock crossover for 6 monthes.
First, I tried the Stucchi. It's a really nice piece. Heavy construction, much of it double-wall. The design is the same as that of the FBF I had mounted previously, but the Stucchi is built like a tank in comparison. The FBF lasted me about 2 months and then cracked along the weld. Despite the signifiacant fact that I am a seller of those things, FBF has yet to warranty it, though I have been trying since last fall/ Screw 'em; six months of trying is too much. About half of them I have sold have cracked, as well. Avoid FBF crossovers like the plague.
Sound: The Stucchi sounded really deep and mellow, like the FBF. Performance: Like the FBF, it was a top-end crossover, not really adding much on my '04 until 6,000 rpm and up. It may have reduced the torque hole from 3,000-4,0000 rpm on my bike, but not by much. There's no way to use it with a centerstand without ballpeaning big divots in the crossover. This would not be easy in such a stoutly constructed piece. Overall impression was nice construction but not suited to my needs.
Then, I tried the Mistral crossover. Like the Stucchi, it is built very stoutly. The stainless is thick, and the welds are nice. It has less "crossover' (shared piping) than the FBF or Stucchi. This might make a big differeence on the earlier bikes without a crossover in front of the engine. Who knows? On the '04 Billy Bob it fit nicely. Best of all, I only had to knock a little divet into the right leg of the centerstand to make it work with the centerstand. Then, it fit like the stock crossover, but what a difference in performance and sound compare d to the stock crossover. Soundwise, it snaaaaarrllss, by comparison. In fact, it's right on the cusp of being too loud when you really get on it. This crossover is all about low- to mid-repm throttle response. From 1,500 rpm to 3,000 rpm, it jets forward, by comprison. I f you ride in trafffic, this is the one you need. From 5,500 or maybe 5,000 rpm on, the Stucchi feel stronger; below that, the Mistral stomps it. By feel, thoroughly.
I'm keeping the Mistral because it just suits my riding style better, plus, then I can keep my lovely centerstand."If you want to invest in a top-notch system, this is it: "DÄS-Auspuffanlage konisch D50x1" http://www.daes-mototec.de/index.php/shop.htmlI don't know if it's available in the US but you could order it from Germany.-
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There's some cost info on the third page of this topic. However, I am starting to give up hope that the RAM clutch will be available. It's been on backorder for a very long time (from MG Cycle for $600). Used flywheel/clutch parts can be found with some effort. I managed to buy a low-mileage wreck - with a complete twin-plate clutch and flywheel.
Do not give up Scud!
Could this tip be something for you? Gawa Guzzi is a serious company. Further down the page is a kit for single-plate clutch (GG2193300 - V11 6 Gang €580).
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I am looking at purchasing the special charger needed for best results with the AGM.
What is the special charger for the LiFePO4? Is the charger costly?
AGM batteries have battery acid bound in a fiberglass mat between the lead plates, it does. that there is a slightly smaller amount of sulfuric acid and therefore these batteries often need slightly higher charging voltage to become fully charged. I'd chosen a smart charger for a AGM battery. As a suggestion, a CTEK XS 3600 charger. http://www.ctek.com/se/en/chargers/XS%203600 Or a CTEK Multi US 4.3, about $85
http://smartercharger.com/battery-chargers/
There are different compatible chargers to Aliant batteries, but the best choice is probably Aliants own charger, model CB1210. http://www.go-aliant.com/web/battery/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=259&Itemid=822&lang=it-IT In Europe I can get a CB1210 for €78 ($85)
CTEK have a special charger for LIFEPO4 batteries, "CTEK LITHIUM US". Costs about $120.
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If you want to mount a modern battery in your bike, you can for example select an Aliant LIFEPO4 battery. Aliant recommend types YLP14 or X4 for the V11. The characteristics of these batteries is much better than the old batteries of AGM type. YLP14 weighs 0.76 kg (1.68 Lbs.) compared to, for example, Odyssey PC545 5.2 kg (11.46 Lbs). Significant lightening of the bike with Aliant battery!
Aliant YLP14: CCA 245 Amp v.s ODYSSEY PC545: CCA 185 Amp. 100% charge in under 30 minutes with a Aliant CB1210 charger is not bad. YLP14: Lx114mm Wx69mm Hx90mm.
And Aliant batteries have more good qualities..
There is a Spark 500, factory fitted, battery in my Ballabio -04 and it still works!! That battery I give the highest rating for function! But for next season I will, as a preventive measure, change to a Aliant battery
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I had similar problems with my Ballabio -04. The clutch worked but didn't disengage completely. It worked so much that the fault wasn't noticeable when shifting gears while driving. It was trouble getting out of number one's gear when the bike was stationary with the engine running. It was right on the edge that it would drive (and make it a little sometime) whith engaged clutch, detached in gear, when stationary. When I search pull mode, it hack / grab a little. The bike had rolled around 16000 kilometers.
I avoided the problem in a very simple manner by adjusting the clutch lever with the ring-nut to position 1. This position gives the clutch piston maximum stroke. I know that this wasn't a way to solve the cause of the problem but it meant I didn't have to disassemble the clutch. Now I have done it anyway because of leaking gearbox.
The reason for the the problem may be due to several causes, but the most likely is worn splines (grooves) on the clutch gear or/and flywheel. I think you can read about it in this forum.
Cheers
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V11 Sport Ballabio '04 with Titanium Factory Race Exhaust System.
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Hi KB
Thanks for your reply!
I think that the fluid is never changed. I will replace clutch fluid to see what happens. There are no signs of leaks. Everything is dry. If it comes in oil into the clutch housing and on the clutch plates, would it not cause the clutch to slip then? Clutch slave cylinder is tight up to the case. The action is a little bit snatchy. I am almost looking forward to disassemble the gearbox and clutch to see how things are with the stuff. Only joking..
Drive season've just started here in Sweden so the problem is badly timed. But after I changed the fluid and it turns out that it has not helped, I must get down to tear the gearbox.Cheers Jörgen
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Hi Michael
Thanks for your reply.
I checked the fly wheel hole but it is completely dry inside. The liquid level in the reservoir has never been lower so there should be no leakage. I wonder how it could be that the bike behaves so that it is impossible to disengage the clutch fully (dragging) because of broken pawl spring? I find it easier to understand that gear switch, or the possibility to engage neutral, is malfunctioning when the return (pawl) spring is dying.
Did your bike hade problem with dragging, or do you mean broken pawl spring, when replacing the clutch?
I have the factory V11 Sport workshop manual.
Jörgen
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Have run without problems for about 1000 kilometer with my V11 -04 but now it's maybe an indication of what it, for example,means that staying in Guzzi Swamp;)
The clutch will work but it does not disengage completely. It works so much that it is not noticeable ( the fault) when shifting while driving. It is, however, trouble getting out of number one's gear when the bike is stationary with the engine running. It is right on the edge that it would drive (and make it a little sometime) whith released clutch, detached in gear, when stationary. When I search pull mode, it hack / grab a little. The bike has rolled around 16000 kilometers. Have my thoughts on the cause ..
Does anyone have experience with similar problems and want to share the experience with me here? I'm not interested in guesses but qualified theories are ok. I want tips on causes before I start tearing apart the bike.
Cheers
Jörgen, Sweden
V11 Transmission Tapping.
in Technical Topics
Posted
Hi Bob
Maybe this thread can give you tips on possible cause of the noise (tapping) in your bike. I think your bike sounds the same as my did. The solution to my problem can be read on page three in the thread.
Good luck!
// Jörgen