Frenchbob Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 According to the remnants of my education, "Valeo" [as in V11 starter motor] comes from the same Latin root as the English "value". This is the clearest evidence yet of MG's sense of irony; yes, I'm having starter motor problems. Click [relay], clunk, then the fuse blew. Fuse replaced, now won't go clunk although the click is still there, and the bike will bump-start OK. I've tried hitting the solenoid, assuming that it is stuck, but no go so as soon as I've time, I'll take it off and clean it.................unless anyone here knows better [highly likely]. My V11 has done 12000 km. My S3 has done 45000 miles and the Bosch starter motor has never, as far as I'm aware, given trouble - shome mishtake shurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Value yes they know how to charge for it various alternives avalible depending on where you live int he world. The most common is the GM spanish built Barina (as known in australia) yo need an auto sparky that is handy and prepared to mess around a bit. But a starter motor for these mass produced !@#$boxes can be adapted to fit the geese. You still need to use the bendic drive and soleniod from the guzzi. An auto eletrcian that will not look at you funny when you say you want the starter motor to rotate the other way (pretty !@#$ing easy with DC motors reverse the polarity. So after you've picked up a motor from you local wrecker off you go. However before trying to do the local auto sparkies head in check the obious is you battery in good condition are both terminals tight whats the earth to frame contact like. The early V11's had a bad set of relays have you checked to see if you bike is affected. Whats the terminal striaght onto the starter motor like? is it clean tight and free of corrsion (nb remove earth battery terminal before going anywhere near this terminal with anything metalic). Is your clutch or side stand kill switches playing up and interfereing with the starting process. Is you handlebar kill switch full of grime and simply neeeds a good clean to get all well again. Basically yes you bike not want to start but look at the simple cheap stuff before you go sluprging on a new starter only to find a 5$ relay was all you really needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchbob Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 Thanks for that, Murray. Relays all Bosch, and I switched them about to check. I've also checked the under-tank connection: OK. Ditto sidestand switch and battery connections/weak battery [ I used a car battery to be sure]. I might well check out the auto breakers if the solenoid doesn't clean up, though, before splurging out on a replacement MG starter [£125 used at Reboot!] Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris a Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Thanks for that, Murray. Relays all Bosch, and I switched them about to check. I've also checked the under-tank connection: OK. Ditto sidestand switch and battery connections/weak battery [ I used a car battery to be sure]. I might well check out the auto breakers if the solenoid doesn't clean up, though, before splurging out on a replacement MG starter [£125 used at Reboot!] Bob Bob , have you managed to find out what has gone in the starter ??? From what I have gleamed off the net , the weak point with the valeos are the field magnets that are glued to the casing... (I mean how cheap can you get !!!!!!!!) and they eventually come adrift . At the moment there are a good few new valeo outer casings including the magnets on the guzzi listing at E bay . If that is what is wrong with your starter it may be cheaper ... I also saw somewhere that a guy in Germany has recently done an adaption kit for a Jap strarter motor for guzzies and that it is the dog's bollocks . price if I remember rightly was 200 euro ????I'm pretty sure that it was mentioned here in the past few months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchbob Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 Bob , have you managed to find out what has gone in the starter ??? From what I have gleamed off the net , the weak point with the valeos are the field magnets that are glued to the casing... (I mean how cheap can you get !!!!!!!!) and they eventually come adrift . At the moment there are a good few new valeo outer casings including the magnets on the guzzi listing at E bay . If that is what is wrong with your starter it may be cheaper ... I also saw somewhere that a guy in Germany has recently done an adaption kit for a Jap strarter motor for guzzies and that it is the dog's bollocks . price if I remember rightly was 200 euro ????I'm pretty sure that it was mentioned here in the past few months... Not investigated yet, Chris, but I'll bear in mind the Ebay tip, and the German Jap starter adaption kit - thanks. Magnets glued to the outer casing. Hmmm......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g.forrest Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Not investigated yet, Chris, but I'll bear in mind the Ebay tip, and the German Jap starter adaption kit - thanks. Magnets glued to the outer casing. Hmmm......... glued yes! this happened on friends cali..magnets came adrift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris a Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 glued yes! this happened on friends cali..magnets came adrift. Yeh it's pretty insane isn't it ??? Harley also did the same thing on the alternator magnets . A good buddy who had spent heaps on his chop ( there is no point in questioning the taste...) had some of these magnets drop off with the result that the cluch was scrap along with gearbox shafts getting bent too...the bill was unbelievable and of course absolutly no come back or guarentee ...and you have to replace it all with the same dodgy components !!!!! At least it seems that for us it's only the valeo's that are effected ...allthough these starter motors are fitted to heaps of other vehicles and it would be surprising if it was a common problem ...maybe the old aircolled twin just heats it all up a bit too much ??? What are they fitting to the Gris/Norge etc??? Same old junk???? I'm on Bosch and have had no problems for years but when the time comes I recon I will go with the German conversion : too many valeo's seem to go wrong and they are not really that cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 The genral concensuse is if you crank the motor for exptened periods it tends to do it someone was kinking around a number of 30secounds or so. But to be honest I wouldn't worry my 1100 sport which is 13years old and has 105 000kms hasn't ever had a problem. Some do do it and when it goes its expnesive and messy but only for the starter but probally 98% of these things are happily providing service pretty much for the life of the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 The starter may be bad; they do fail. We had one last week that did like you describe. The battery tested bad, so we replaced it. That didn't work. We replaced the starter. That didn't work. Then, we started futzing with grounds and got it suddenly working with the original starter. Electrons can be tough to tame . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 I think the best thing to remeber with starter is they need current really big current not to be confused with voltage. A engauged starter motor bassically shorts across the battery and draws all the current avalible usally around a couple hundred amps and then some (this is why the battery voltage drops). If we use the common analogy of water voltage is the preasure of the water and current is the volume. This is why the starter motor leads are bigger than anything else and while a partially blocked hose will provide preasure but not the volume the same with a bad contact on an earth or battery terminal. Just about every vheicle made uses a negative earth system (unless you have some horrid old lucas equiped pommy built pile of ......) where all the current flows through the frame to the negative terminal to complete the circuit. Well actually the current flows the other way but I'll leave that alone for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchbob Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share Posted June 2, 2007 Murray, I have a 200km run out on 10th June with my local club, and I shall be going on.............you guessed it..........a horrid, old, Lucas-equipped, Pommie-built pile of **** which I can rely upon to start Thanks for everyone's suggestions, though: when I've taken the starter off and found the problem, and hopefully a solution not involving replacement, I'll post again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchbob Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 For those, if any, who haven't gone to sleep, the plunger in the solenoid was considerably gummed up. I've freed this off, oiled it and lightly greased the worm gear. While the starter's off, I'll clean t'other end as well [the electrical bit]. Then we'll see. I'm also slightly concerned that the plunger mechanism [rocker] is held together by an interference fit pin, with nothing but friction to stop it falling out. Very odd. When I got the starter off, I discovered that it had a "Made in France" label on the hidden side of the casing......................! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 When I got the starter off, I discovered that it had a "Made in France" label on the hidden side of the casing......................! Valeo is well known to be a French company. They should use epoxy instead of camembert for securing the magnets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drknow Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I guess there's a Ducati starter off of one of the superbikes that fits, but I don't know the details. It's referenced in this article here: http://www.guzzitech.com/4VUpgrade-JM.html Anyone? dk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris a Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Bob , I'm shocked !!!!!!! you are "FRENCH bob" and you havn'e noticed the amount of French cars that are early crashing into you all the time in France ???!!!! tSeriously , Valeo are a pretty big firm and are the equivalent ( in more ways than one ) of Lucas. Heureusement on ne peut pas les appeler les 'princes de la nuit " (leurs alternateurs marchent... ) mais peut etre les "seigneurs du starter "???!!! Hope the solenoid clean works.... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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