canada goose Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 On my bike, the Fuel pump relay socket is wired differently from the other three: It has Pin 2 wired to +12V, and the others have Pin 1 wired to +12V. I do not know if it left the factory this way or it was modified later on. Also, the 3 other relays are polarised Bosch types (built in diode). The faulty fuel pump relay was a non-polarised Siemens. The net result was that it was not possible to try one of the others (say the Headlamp relay) in the Fuel Pump relay socket: If you did, you would have connected +12V to an ECU output via a diode. I don't think the ECU would like that. Bingo! I discovered the same thing, the first time I attempted troubleshooting by relay swapping. I then picked up a couple of the appropriate p/n H-D relays and I was no further ahead. I forget who makes them, but they are also one-directional (diode protected). I finally wised up and bought 6 (one spare) of the GEI relays. They are bi-directional, 5 pin (work in every socket), have the highest amp rating of any relay of this size. You can use them to troubleshoot many Guzzis, Ducatis, some H-Ds, and Lord knows what else. You can remove the 5th pin and run them in a 4 pin socket, on bikes that are so equipped. Since I installed them a year ago, I have never had an electrical problem. Previously, I had an intermittent start circuit gremlin that I couldn't pinpoint. I'm not sure if the GEI relays solved the problem all on their own, or if it was my other electrical maintenance that did it, but I don't care. They are cheap and do their job well! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Swapping the relays might not be such a good idea Looking down from above, the sockets the relay pins are numbered: ---3--- ---5--- 1--4--2 On my bike, the Fuel pump relay socket is wired differently from the other three: It has Pin 2 wired to +12V, and the others have Pin 1 wired to +12V. I do not know if it left the factory this way or it was modified later on. Also, the 3 other relays are polarised Bosch types (built in diode). The faulty fuel pump relay was a non-polarised Siemens. The net result was that it was not possible to try one of the others (say the Headlamp relay) in the Fuel Pump relay socket: If you did, you would have connected +12V to an ECU output via a diode. I don't think the ECU would like that. Naturally, if all your relays are non-polarised you can swap relays without any problem If you wan't to test your fuel pump, briefly short out pins 3 and 5 on the socket (with the relay removed) and you should hear the pump running. Glad you are here to catch my bad advice I forgot that bikes might have relays with diodes and that Guzzi does funky wiring. I hope swapping did no damage. Alex, what brand and part numbers are on your relays? PyroDan has a good FAQ http://www.dpguzzi.com/relay_faq.htm 14. I can get relays elsewhere. Got any advice? Make sure any relay you install does not have an internal protective diode. These relays expect coil terminal 86 to be positive and terminal 85 to be negative. Some Guzzi relay sockets are wired the opposite. Installing a relay with a protective diode in these sockets will cause fuses to blow! We do recommend relays with an internal protective resistor. A relay with no diode and no resistor, e.g., Siemens V23073, can be used for the fuel pump and ECU relays on some late model Guzzis because a protective diode is hard wired into the bike's harness. 85 and 86 correspond to 2 and 1 on your chart. Alex does not have a protective Diode, so he should avoid that Siemens V23073 relay atleast at the ECU Relay and Fuel Pump/Power Relay and maybe other relays. He should avoid a relay with a Diode at the Power/Fuel Pump relay and at the headlamp relay, and maybe at other relays. The recommended Bosch with resistor should be fine, but he Starter Relay could really benefit from the GEI relay which also has resistor and has great current handling of the 87a terminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 All the relays are the same Wanted to disconnect the pump and check it out with my older battery there is only one dirty cable to disconnect.That confused me cause in my parts catalogue I see 2.Anyways. Hopefully it is the relays. now what are the chances of being the relays over there.? Over here there are not big chances on finding a pump so I am seriously thinking to get them all in one big order. If I run out of parts now I will be grounded for some long time.It is also vacation time and everybody is closing,. (damn it) Gonna get them from Agostini. Well I am defect at the moment left leg is nerve hit and I can only use my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 they are all Siemens V23073! An auto parts store in Andromeda be able to get the Bosch 0 332 207 307 Maybe this helps to get some Siemens V23074 (somewhat improved relay as it appears to have resistor added????? Be sure to get 12V not 24V): http://www.fotorele.net/tianbo.html but I don't speak greek For people in Radio Shack country, Radio Shack part number 900-2391 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 they are all Siemens V23073! An auto parts store in Andromeda be able to get the Bosch 0 332 207 307 Maybe this helps to get some Siemens V23074 (somewhat improved relay as it appears to have resistor added????? Be sure to get 12V not 24V): http://www.fotorele.net/tianbo.html but I don't speak greek For people in Radio Shack country, Radio Shack part number 900-2391 That site is Russian indeed !! Thanks Dave, here in Andromeda, is a "permanent vacation" situation. The other day I was to the Ducati importer looking for the (1st) V.regulator , their attitude was. "what do you want, leave us alone, too hot today to work, we don't have a part if you don't give us the exact number, go away go away." You understand what I am saying? I even order my tires from Germany .LOL, give no money for the stupid. Man I am really grounded in my room from the foot as well, right now. Pushing the bike a couple of days ago did inflate PAIN in a hurt nerve. So woke up to early today , an AMAZING 8:30 like I would go for hunting or something. I can only visit my kitchen my garage and the bathroom. Will get these SIEMENS relays ASAP> What about these BOSCH relays is this (0 332 207 307) a MOTO GUZZI part number , you gave me Thanks Once again Dave, I owe you beer.! P.S. Radio Shack , where is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 That site is Russian indeed !! It is all Greek to me! Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 It is all Greek to me! Sorry. It's all Greek to me as well. Your help is so great anyways, thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 What about these BOSCH relays is this (0 332 207 307) a MOTO GUZZI part number , you gave me Thanks Once again Dave, I owe you beer.! P.S. Radio Shack , where is that? Radio Shack is likely US only. The Bosch number is a Bosch number. I would have owed you some beer if swapping the relays killed anything! Glad they are all the same. Clearly one or more are bad. You might be able to find a VW crossref here http://www.kraecker.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Done some further measurements. 1.Checked the connections of the pump. yes , ground is on ,and connected to chasis 2.Disco' the fuel pump and took the battery of the bike and connected correctly 12V on ......as good as dead (while also having the poles of the multimeter on it there were 12V getting there.) I guess I am going for the big bucks damage here. Yuppiiieee , One week vacation is over before it started. Yes there is a possibility that the pump is being stuck. One solution is to hammer it a bit , but then again who can tell me that is won't get the same problem again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 The fuel pumps will eventually gunge up and crap themselves espcially if you run the cheapest fuel you can find. With my carbed 1100 sport I occasionally have random problems from the relays its not the relays themselves as such but the gap between the body work and the underside of the gaurd that allows road grime to flick up onto the connections for them. clean with a bit of contact cleaner and usally all is well again on the road simply wapping the relays will clean the connectors enough to get things going again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Have a look here. http://morini.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?...;highlight=pump http://morini.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?...&highlight= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoguzznix Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Done some further measurements. 1.Checked the connections of the pump. yes , ground is on ,and connected to chasis 2.Disco' the fuel pump and took the battery of the bike and connected correctly 12V on ......as good as dead (while also having the poles of the multimeter on it there were 12V getting there.) I guess I am going for the big bucks damage here. Yuppiiieee , One week vacation is over before it started. Yes there is a possibility that the pump is being stuck. One solution is to hammer it a bit , but then again who can tell me that is won't get the same problem again. Alex I enter this thread late, but the check above would be on of my first checks when the fuel pump does not work. If there arrives a positive voltage at the pump and it does not work, everything is clear. There are aftermarket fuel pumps available, I once installed a Walbro pump into a Centauro, works perfect. Car parts supplieres should have comparison lists to find a cheaper one. Price of the Walbro was 1/3rd of the original Bosch pump supplied by Guzzi (approx. 115 € if my memory serves me well). Forget to repair the pump, it is hard to dismount without distroying it, a rpair is definitely not in the plan for such a device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Alex I enter this thread late, but the check above would be on of my first checks when the fuel pump does not work. If there arrives a positive voltage at the pump and it does not work, everything is clear. There are aftermarket fuel pumps available, I once installed a Walbro pump into a Centauro, works perfect. Car parts supplieres should have comparison lists to find a cheaper one. Price of the Walbro was 1/3rd of the original Bosch pump supplied by Guzzi (approx. 115 € if my memory serves me well). Forget to repair the pump, it is hard to dismount without distroying it, a rpair is definitely not in the plan for such a device. Thank you Murray , Cliff and motoguzzinix. Your advice is so useful to me. Unfortunately for my pocket right now, I have bought the original fuel pump but then again I wanted to have it ASAP since soon everyone closes for summer vacation. Though I will definetlly have in mind and get a cheaper as a spare. I think This pump will do the trick , right??? (same seller and pump prompted from the other forum link in ebay) Cliff??? Actually the pump that arrived is the 0 580 464 048 on sale is the 0 580 464 070 , any clues on that.? So here the fuel pump arrived and looks like that. Is this X supposed to indicate the positive side of the voltage connector? Cheers once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 Good news for today ! Fuel pump was replaced ONLY , since the relais were functioning I didn't try changing with the new ones. Waited for 20secs and voila UP SHE WENT back to life !!! I am content Man now. Finally the thicker screw pole on the pump is the positive... Have not yet test drive it but I believe it is OK, though I will test it latter on. Testing the pump be disconnecting it and connect direct to the battery was the test that proved the faulty part/ Thanks for ALL the advices and tips , our forum ROCKS I owe you all a beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Martin.Glaeser- Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Good news for today ! Fuel pump was replaced ONLY , ... Have not yet test drive it but I believe it is OK, ..... What a happy end, Alex! I experienced similar problems with the MotoGuzzi V11 fuel pump when I stayed in Singapore. Obviously these Pierburg pumps can not come along so well with the heat. I got it replaced, and I ordered from my dealer MotoSpezial in Germany. My report is in German only, sorry (http://35229.rapidforum.com/topic=102475709271), so no need to go there for the reading. But I also did some engineering while waiting for the shipment from Germany to Singapore (and this toooook quite a while, man!), and I added a few lines about fule pump replacement parts. Goto Bosch Motorsport (http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language1/html/2832.htm), and I recommend #580 . 254 044 ...old #580 . 464 048 ...old #254 . 464 070 ...new #580 . 464 070 ...new 'New' means that Bosch has developed a single new, unified standard fuel pump model replacing a few other old models with different plugs or hose connectors. -Martin- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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