cycdude6 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Bike won't start and 6 other problems, returned to dealer, two weeks, repaired. Fork seal leaking again. Bike won't start again. Took bike on short camping trip (Yankee Beemers, Taconic State Park, NY, USA), bike won't start. All switches test ok, solenoid and starter ok. Tachometer quits, headlight quits. I Break the fuel line disconnect when removing tank to check all connections . Called Wagner Motorsports, after some discussion the manager drove two hours, picked up the Ballabio and lent me their Ducati GT1000 demo until the Guzzi was fixed or lemon-lawed. (Drove the Ducati, loved it's competence (and the fact it always started!) and revvy motor. I found it to be a little more comfortable than the Ballabio and similar tho lighter handling. The exhaust note was very nice and the bike is attractive) However, I prefer the looks and motor of the Guzzi, I think it's a sexier bike and would prefer to keep it. If they can't fix the Ballabio, then I may have to consider the GT as a replacement. 1) My Guzzi may really be a lemon; do you think it's repairable (multiple electrical intermittent gremlins --the only one which matters tho is the starting issue.) 2) Even if they manage to fix the bike I've been stuck too many times...it will have to regain my trust. Can a Guzzi really ever become reliable after a really bad start? 3) Please, your thoughts on the Ducati GT as a replacement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Bad relay and maybe a bad clutch switch. Repairing the broken fitting requires replacing the entire pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycdude6 Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 Bad relay and maybe a bad clutch switch. Repairing the broken fitting requires replacing the entire pump. Ahhh, it's up to the dealer now. Every switch tested ok, solenoid ok. No start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waspp Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 It almost sounds like a bad ground of this particlar circut, arn't these items (tach, headlight starter solinoid) on the same relay? It could be a poor relay connection or damaged (pinched wire) somewhere. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 You probably know this, but a switch can test OK on a DVM but then fail under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th_01 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Yo Dude RELAYS Don't dink around. Replace all the relays. I sent you a link from the www.Guzzitech.com site Search for relays on the main page. This is a known issue. Hope to see you on the road soon European Motorcycle rally at Lars Andersen Museum Oct 6th Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycdude6 Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 Yo Dude RELAYS Thanks Tom, I really appreciate your advice and especially the phone call. Gracias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil_P Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Relays can produce the most bizzare symptoms, including non starting or starting and die-ing. The relay can show on test as working perfectly. Siemens V23073 are the biggest culprit and are a complete and utter crock of cr@p. Replace and throw away, do NOT keep as spares. Don't ask me how I know, but it was expensive!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I have had no relay problems so far, but perhaps that's because my bike came with Tyco brand relays, made in Portugal. Nevertheless, I have just purchased a sample of an Omron substitute relay. It has a higher contact rating. I have not tried it yet, but I have a lot of good experience with this Japanese brand. I can buy these through my company with a quantity discount and supply them at discount prices to my pals on this forum. They are about $8 each. I expect they will come in on Wednesday or Thursday. I'll try it out and let you'all know what I find. If it looks and works good, I plan on pulling all the Tyco relays and keeping them as emergency spares. I consider it cheap insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The basic electronics is so simple, a decent shop should be able to find the problem. So what happens when you push the startbutton? nothing, not even a small relay click? Do the lights work? It's pathetic that a bike with a few small problems won't be repaired, so it could run lot of miles without problems. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycdude6 Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 The basic electronics is so simple, a decent shop should be able to find the problem. So what happens when you push the startbutton? nothing, not even a small relay click? Do the lights work? It's pathetic that a bike with a few small problems won't be repaired, so it could run lot of miles without problems. . Bike is at Wagners, had a bad relay, as well as a couple of mispositioned relays from swapping them out trying to fix the bike. Marzocchi left fork tube will be replaced, mechanic fixed once already. Broken fuel line disconnect repaired by campfire-side with epoxy and a cotter pin. The next step is to find someone to help me rewire the headlight circuit with it's own relay and redo and dielectric grease all the electrical connections. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hi John, Here's the cure for your relay woes: http://www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm . Replace them all for under $15 and carry an old one for a spare. Here's a source for headlight relay kits: http://www.easternbeaver.com/Home/Main/Pro...ts/h4_kits.html They are a little pricy compared to buying the individual components but I like one stop shopping. Also note they have some "old model" kits on their clearance page for less money. I installed their fairing mount kit in my LeMans last year and haven't had any problems with it. The LM has a tight headlight bucket so I mounted the relays to the fairing frame. I'm not sure which kit would work best on your Ballabio. Re: Ducati GT1000. Nice bike, but I like my Guzzi better. I took a spin on a Sport 1000, which is quite similar to the GT, at Wagners a while back. Here are my impressions: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...c=11995&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hi John, Here's the cure for your relay woes: http://www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm . Replace them all for under $15 and carry an old one for a spare. Here's a source for headlight relay kits: http://www.easternbeaver.com/Home/Main/Pro...ts/h4_kits.html They are a little pricy compared to buying the individual components but I like one stop shopping. Also note they have some "old model" kits on their clearance page for less money. I installed their fairing mount kit in my LeMans last year and haven't had any problems with it. The LM has a tight headlight bucket so I mounted the relays to the fairing frame. I'm not sure which kit would work best on your Ballabio. Re: Ducati GT1000. Nice bike, but I like my Guzzi better. I took a spin on a Sport 1000, which is quite similar to the GT, at Wagners a while back. Here are my impressions: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...c=11995&hl= That's a great price for the relays from GEI, and the coil suppression resistor is a help. However, they are made in China, whereas the slightly more expensive Omrons are made in Japan, also have the suppression resistor, and have a higher contact rating. What's the deal on the headlight relay kit? How is the headlight supplied as standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 That's a great price for the relays from GEI, and the coil suppression resistor is a help. However, they are made in China, whereas the slightly more expensive Omrons are made in Japan, also have the suppression resistor, and have a higher contact rating. What's the deal on the headlight relay kit? How is the headlight supplied as standard? As for the relays, I'm just echoing the standard response here for years which is get the ones from Dan and your relay problems will end. I replaced all of mine even though I didn't have any symptoms just because it's so cheap. There's a significant voltage drop at the headlight with the stock Guzzi wiring. See Dave's pictures in this thread to see the difference in light output after upgrading the wiring. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...c=9673&st=0 The Eastern Beaver harness is pretty much plug and play. I say pretty much because I did have to extend 1 wire that goes to the little running lamp inside the headlight bucket. I'm happy with the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 As for the relays, I'm just echoing the standard response here for years which is get the ones from Dan and your relay problems will end. I replaced all of mine even though I didn't have any symptoms just because it's so cheap. There's a significant voltage drop at the headlight with the stock Guzzi wiring. See Dave's pictures in this thread to see the difference in light output after upgrading the wiring. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...c=9673&st=0 The Eastern Beaver harness is pretty much plug and play. I say pretty much because I did have to extend 1 wire that goes to the little running lamp inside the headlight bucket. I'm happy with the result. Thanks, Tom. I thought maybe it had something to do with taking a load off a switch, but then I looked at my schematic, and the lights are already switched by a relay. I think the Siemens relays were superceded somewhere along the way by Tyco's, so later models may be more reliable. I wonder what type failed in cycdude6's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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