raz Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I'm looking for a dump file of an original EPROM from an 1100 Sport (1.6M) ECU. I found one on the 'net that is supposed to be a Guzzi but not confirmed a Sporti. Anyone have one, please submit it here (if that is possible? It's pretty small) or a link somewhere external, or PM me for my email address. Thanks in advance. I suspect my OEM ECU has an aftermarket EPROM. One of the reasons is it has just a hand-written label saying 'Sp1100'. I will dump mine to file and I want to compare it to a known OEM. Another reason I want one is I recently realized there are programs to read it and present the maps. That means I can have my My16M mimic the OEM which would be an interesting test in how the software differ in interpolation etc. Also, I'm curious to see how the ignition advance curves differ (or not) from a V11 non-cat 1.5M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 You won't be able to use the injection numbers as is. I tried once and the Sport was unridable. I think the OEM adds an injector dead time or something so I would expect you will need to add some constant of the order of 1ms . My latest software allows to be done more easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio carroccio Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Try to contact Alex-Corsa, I have spoken to him and he was talking about a modification of the programs in the M16 of his 1100 sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 You won't be able to use the injection numbers as is. I tried once and the Sport was unridable. I think the OEM adds an injector dead time or something so I would expect you will need to add some constant of the order of 1ms . My latest software allows to be done more easily. Thanks, that's good to know. I'll sort it out. I'd like the upgrade please! Another question for you: I've read about people having tacho's reading some 200 rpm high. If my tacho reading is the same as the Optimiser rpm reading, it should mean I can trust the tacho (in terms of offset) when using either ECU, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Try to contact Alex-Corsa, I have spoken to him and he was talking about a modification of the programs in the M16 of his 1100 sport. Thanks. He seems busy inspecting fur, or lack of it, in France I'll try and PM him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Thanks, that's good to know. I'll sort it out. I'd like the upgrade please! Another question for you: I've read about people having tacho's reading some 200 rpm high. If my tacho reading is the same as the Optimiser rpm reading, it should mean I can trust the tacho (in terms of offset) when using either ECU, right? Send me an email for the upgrade. The OEM ecu generated tacho pulses based on the engine pulses.I found this incorrect on my Sport so I came up with an independent pulse stream. This was calibrated on my tacho though. The Optimiser is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 The OEM ecu generated tacho pulses based on the engine pulses.I found this incorrect on my Sport so I came up with an independent pulse stream. This was calibrated on my tacho though. The Optimiser is correct. My tacho shows same as Optimiser too. So the tacho is probably not perfect when using the OEM ECU, I'll have to remember that when trying to make conclusions. I'm getting the feel it will be hard to draw conclusions from this project at all but anyway it's a lot more fun than Sudoku, and more figures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Also, I'm curious to see how the ignition advance curves differ (or not) from a V11 non-cat 1.5M. The map from my 2000 V11 non cat and the map from a Ti ECU I'd like to see the 16M maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Those spark advance maps look identical above 2000 RPM. Is the only thing they adjusted to help it idle and pickup from idle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Those spark advance maps look identical above 2000 RPM. Is the only thing they adjusted to help it idle and pickup from idle ? I don't know. Interestingly, when I tried the Ti Map it ran well accept in the area where it is different. Not that it had trouble idling, just a lot of popping in that area. Luhbo did a great comparison with Excel spread sheets. You might PM him for them if interested, or I might find my copy that he gave me and share it. I might try the Ti map again, now that I know the TPS at idle setting should be varied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 The map from my 2000 V11 non cat and the map from a Ti ECUI'd like to see the 16M maps Sure, I'll post them when I have known originals. Dave, does your software allow you to see the injector dead time table? I'm pretty sure there must be one in the 1.6M but the various softwares I've got does not show it. I've tried googling for nominal figures for my IW031 injectors (V11 seems to have the same) but haven't found any yet. Not that I really need one when running closed loop, but [insert Ratch's favourite ending here] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I did such a comparison. The result was that both maps are more less identical. On the first sight they look different. You must multiply the given value in the main fuel map with some strange value coming from Wayne, after that you add the correction values for oil/air temp and ambient pressure and come out with a map, as already mentioned, more or less identical to the one shown on the first picture. So, if you copy values from one map into another one, you must make sure that you copy all sub maps. I mentioned in another thread already that in my eyes the whole TuneEdit thing is a bit a suspect thing. Anyway, fuel maps are not important. Use a WB O2 probe and you'll come out with a very usable map for your specific bike. The important part of the game is the spark advance. This is where you gain or lose torque, as Ernst eg. e.a. have posted here. Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 I've tried googling for nominal figures for my IW031 injectors (V11 seems to have the same) but haven't found any yet. Not that I really need one when running closed loop, but [insert Ratch's favourite ending here] Searched a lot more, found nothing. I would have guessed there was a spec. sheet for the injectors with such data. Apparently it depends too much on other parameters (like how you drive them) so it would be of no use. Anyway, most all figures I saw for other injectors was about 1 ms @ 12V (just wot you said Cliff ) I did find http://www.yawpower.com/injectordynamics.html who can flow test my very injectors for USD 100. That would be interesting, but anal. I'm not THAT interested. I did such a comparison. The result was that both maps are more less identical. On the first sight they look different. You must multiply the given value in the main fuel map with some strange value coming from Wayne, after that you add the correction values for oil/air temp and ambient pressure and come out with a map, as already mentioned, more or less identical to the one shown on the first picture. You compared the 15M OEM to the 15M Ti, or what? Anyway, fuel maps are not important. Use a WB O2 probe and you'll come out with a very usable map for your specific bike. The important part of the game is the spark advance. This is where you gain or lose torque, as Ernst eg. e.a. have posted here. The spark advance table is what got me started. The rest is just out of curiosity. I have an ignition table you posted long time ago, have you tweaked it more since then? I've read the long old ECU thread several times and I'm still very curious what values the LSU4.2 would produce compared to the EGA O2 and CO figures Derek posted in his examples. Also, what will happen in the following scenario (using MyECU): 1. Ignition advance is just the original ball-park figure 2. Map is tuned in closed loop to, say lambda 0.9 3. Some magic way we now find out the optimal advance for this coordinate (say it's three degrees more advance) 4. Run closed-loop again Will the sensor now show a higher lambda for the previously tuned pulsewidth (final death to all references to AFR), meaning the closed loop will take advantage of the spark advance by richening the fuel? Just like that? If so, we really have to invent (or re-invent) autotune for ignition advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 ...You compared the 15M OEM to the 15M Ti, or what? Don't know what exactly I compared. Wayne sent me 3 maps, one OEM, one later OEM and one based on the dump I pulled from a Ti ECU, ofcourse also changed into the shown format. We must believe that these maps are what they've been sold for, but then - all three show nearly identical summed up values. Reading this, keep also in mind that I did this three or more years ago. ....Will the sensor now show a higher lambda for the previously tuned pulsewidth (final death to all references to AFR) ... Probably, but this definitely will not be the end of all AFR references. The O2 probe in closed loop (in fact closed loop is something different, strictly speaking) will still give good enough results to make a perfectly running bike! That's my experience at least, please no theory bashing here. Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 ...I might try the Ti map again, now that I know the TPS at idle setting should be varied. How come? Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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