raz Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Ratch, if I use a larger or bolder font than you do, or sixteen thousand words more, will I win then? Anyway, I'm delighted you use the word 'groupthink'. This is an excellent example of YOU groupthinking. Or maybe not, maybe you are just lobbying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Ratch, if I use a larger or bolder font than you do, or sixteen thousand words more, will I win then? Anyway, I'm delighted you use the word 'groupthink'. This is an excellent example of YOU groupthinking. Or maybe not, maybe you are just lobbying. Raz, is this^ the best you can come up with in response to something you apparently disagree with? If you had something intelligent to contribute, I reckon you'd have done so by now. If you don't want to read, you're in the wrong place. May I suggest you click on over to the Hooters thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Again, I will accept any credible independent, verifiable, well documented source -- the same as I always provide myself. This is the most basic requirement for any credible information that exists anywhere on the planet, and always has been. It appears that you can't provide one. Well, then. There we have it. I'll call the Wall Street Journal and order them to do a story on this bike just for you. All credible news sources love to fly in their reporters a couple thousand miles to do a story on a one-off motorcycle that none of them have ever heard of. If they actually send someone, though, you'd just write a shrill rant calling them liars, too, rather than admit defeat. Are you in the habit of calling people liars when you meet them face-to-face, Hatchetwhacker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Again, I will accept any credible independent, verifiable, well documented source -- the same as I always provide myself. This is the most basic requirement for any credible information that exists anywhere on the planet, and always has been. It appears that you can't provide one. Well, then. There we have it. whats a credible source than some dumbass that just wrote it down, maybe most of your "credible" sources never left their computer room to actually find out anything, (Worked for CBS for years), so don't go thinking everything you have is a credible source, I know you can't doubt everything you read but come on, first hand knowledge like Greg has is where these idiots get their articles from and usually f it up in the process so its all wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Are you in the habit of calling people liars. . . Unlike yourself, I'm in the habit of being able to back up my positions on all the info I bring here. Your term for yourself is not one I've used, but I think it's pretty obvious to anyone with any intelligence and sense of objectivity who's credible here, and who's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 whats a credible source than some dumbass that just wrote it down, maybe most of your "credible" sources never left their computer room to actually find out anything, (Worked for CBS for years), so don't go thinking everything you have is a credible source, I know you can't doubt everything you read but come on, first hand knowledge like Greg has is where these idiots get their articles from and usually f it up in the process so its all wrong. Say DeBen FYI - CBS is one of the least credible news sources on the planet. They're nearly single-handedly responsible for the launch of much of the major corruption of what used to be known as journalism, and it has fully degenerated into a blatant propaganda network. Little semblance of the former profession of journalism has applied at CBS for years. As a result of shoddy, inaccurate reporting, their ratings have been in the toilet for over a decade, and they're steadily going down from there. Did you work in the news room or in the cafeteria? I have to ask because it's pretty obvious that you have no clue what credible sourcing of information means. But then, there's probably no one left at CBS who does either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Unlike yourself, I'm in the habit of being able to back up my positions on all the info I bring here. Your term for yourself is not one I've used, but I think it's pretty obvious to anyone with intelligence and sense of objectivity who's credible here, and who's not. I regard things I see with my own eyes as truth. I watched Micha make the mods and then I watched the guy ride away on the bike. If that's not credible, well, @#!#$# it. Why try to reason with an ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 All credible news sources love to fly in their reporters a couple thousand miles to do a story on a one-off motorcycle that none of them have ever heard of. You have more "Eco-friendly" publishers within a short Prius, bicycle, or skateboard ride from you than anywhere else on the planet, Greg. Seems to me that one or two of 'em might be at least semi-credible. You mean to tell me that you can't find ONE knucklehead with a green ribbon pin and a peace sign on his tie-dyed T-shirt to come out to cover the ONLY 100% ethanol powered motorcycle (regardless of mfgr.) in the entire PNW, if not the USA, if not the planet? How d'you explain that, Greg?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 You have more "Eco-friendly" publishers within a Prius, bicycle, or skateboard ride from you than anywhere else on the planet, Greg. One or two of 'em might be at least semi-credible. You mean to tell me that you can't find ONE knucklehead with a green ribbon pin and a peace sign on his tie-dyed T-shirt to come out to cover the ONLY 100% ethanol powered motorcycle (regardless of mfgr.) in the entire PNW, if not the USA, if not the planet? How d'you explain that, Greg?? Well, it's very simple: The owner is quite introverted. He would not seek publicity. And he doesn't really give a shit if anyone else likes what he's done. He's excited as hell about it and will tell you if he really thinks you're interested, but he certainly wouldn't take it to the newspapers or magazines and say, "Do a story on me. I need validation for what I do." He is able to think for himself and willing to put his money where his beliefs are. I like him quite a bit. He's a hell of a locksmith, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I regard things I see with my own eyes as truth. I watched Micha make the mods and then I watched the guy ride away on the bike. If that's not credible, well, @#!#$# it. Why try to reason with an ass? The eye that alters alters all. - William Blake I have very little reason to take you at your word. Let me list some of the ways you've damaged your crediblity with me: 1. You repeatedly (6 or 7 times, IIRC) diagnosed my Guzzi as having valve and guide problems. It had neither then, has neither now, and never had any symptoms of either. 2. You sold me a useless, obsolete brass head temp holder that made my Guzzi run like crap, and repeatedly recommended wrapping it in duct tape to make it work. It made it run worse. 3. I made up my own head temp sensor holder. You filibustered my report of success with it here with daily ridicule, despite the fact that it worked better than the OE unit then, it has done so ever since, it continues to provide consistent 10% better mileage to boot, and the success I had was validated 100% by at least two others who posted the same. 4. You don't understand the most basic high-school level principles of Physics and heat flow. Not a good shortcoming to suffer from for any self-professed, "trusted advisor" in a moto shop. 5. You falsely claimed that my short frame Guzzi has a history of being "extremely twitchy", providing no evidence whatsoever. 6. You made clear, repeat false inferences on this Forum to riders being killed on short frame Guzzis that allegedly threw them off due to this non-existent "problem", again providing no evidence whatsoever. As far as I'm concerned, you're far from credible, and you have precious little basis for claiming that you've ever as much as attempted to reason with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagehenry Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 My I live in Northern Illinois, and use gas with ethanol in everything that runs on gasoline at my home. Three years with the Nero now, tank shows no sign of swelling, growth, etc. I have taken my tank off a bunch of times, no problem putting it back on, ever. I also have a lawnmower, weed wacker, leaf blower, a couple cars and a truck that all get filled with ethanol gas. I have yet to experience ANY of the problems others have noted thus far. Only the wife's car is less than two years old. All the other stuff is at least 4 years old, the weed wacker and truck are over ten years old. I do nothing special to any of them besides start the lawn tools once or twice each winter. I have never done carb cleaning or rebuilds, never needed to replace fuel lines or gaskets, nothing. And this is Illinois. If there is a place where they will cheat to maximize profits, and get away with it, it is here. Also, my brother owns his own earth moving company that requires trucks, cars, gas powered saws, pumps, generators, etc, and he has alot of gas powered "toys". He also does all his own repairs, and says he doesn't see any of these ethanol related issues. From my point of view, that says there is more than one culprit buggering the works here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emry Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I got some interesting answers. Some was from older EPA, CARB, RFA, and indepentant studies, others were with conversations with engineers in the fuel system field and related fields. Short Summury - It is a combination of ethanol and the aromatics that are used as an additive package. The local aromatic packages are different due to regional requirements and state legislation. Neat ethanol (100%) has little effect on HDPE, and is transported in said containers. HDPE is very susceptible to the aromaitcs packages - benzene etc. A major effect is swelling, (up to 40% depending on chemical exposure % and temperature) and softening. Note this is in high concentrations, the percents used in all regional fuel blends exhibit little dimension gain or loss of strength. But the aromatics allow the ethanol to permeate the HDPE, with up to 26% increase in permeation rates. HDPE that is experiencing ethanol permeation will swell and exhibit weight gain. MTBE had a resistive effect on the permeation of HDPE, approx -6%. The combination created a large increase in evaporative emissions which the major manufactors answered with sulfated or fluorinated and multi-layered plastics, mostly HDPE derivatives. Negative effects on other fuel system components was negliagble due the change in materials already undertaken due to changes in the fuel systems, ie. carbs to FI. Plastic tanks were prefered to their weight, and ability to be ecomonically formed into complex shapes. Metal tanks had zero problems with permeation but had problems with acids and salts that form as fuel ages. These effects on older automotive products are largely ignored (untreated HDPE), no one with 98 Toyota Supra ever noticed an increase in fuel tank size, with marine and other motorized product being similar, although many small engine builders had to quickly change carb materials. Motorcycles are rather unique in their fuel tanks are normally part of their design, even relativley small dimensional changes can be noticed. Most manufacters normally use treated steel, with very few plastics tanks used in an exposed location. AZ, TX and the metro Atlanta GA areas all use similar additive packages. WA, and CA are similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Interesting stuff, Emry. Thanks for providing. Not bustin' your chops here, but can you provide any source links to any of this (I'd like to read more), and do you (or anyone else) know the correct plastic formulation for V11 tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I bet if you show enough sources and use mostly opinions and add big enough fonts for flair, you can get ratchet to believe the world is indeed still flat and the sun revolves around the earth, those ideas once had credible sources too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Well, it's very simple: The owner is quite introverted. He would not seek publicity. And he doesn't really give a shit if anyone else likes what he's done. He's excited as hell about it and will tell you if he really thinks you're interested, but he certainly wouldn't take it to the newspapers or magazines and say, "Do a story on me. I need validation for what I do." He is able to think for himself and willing to put his money where his beliefs are. I like him quite a bit. He's a hell of a locksmith, too. Well, how selfish can a self-infatuated Greenie be?! I mean, I thought the whole idea was to save the planet?? If this wunderkind locksmith is so shy and introverted that he wants to keep his brilliant Eco-breakthrough discovery that's not apparently within the ability of any auto or moto industry on the planet to match -- well, that's just not very nice of him, now, is it? Does he have a patent filed on his process? If not, what's to keep Moto International from going into production? If you can't sell it to Dave, why don't you pony up and go into business yourself, Greg? Why, the world is just a-clamorin' for a Green Moto Extravaganza, and this could just set off the Holy Grail of Greeniedom -- I'm talkin' 'bout The Revolution, man! So wot's the deal? Where's the World Wide Green Press on this one? Why, it's a guaranteed front-page, above the fold, headliner?!?! Enquiring minds. . .(well, you know). . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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