Engine Pinging

[Guest MikeC]

Anyone ever experience pinging. Sounded like pinging to me but not sure.

 

I was on the super slab today and had a clear stretch so i opened the V11 up in sixth gear. Had my eye on the road so i wasn't sure of speed but I would guess a little above 90 not sure of RPM's but all the sudden I heard what sounded like pinging.

 

Slowed down and tried it again, same thing but this time I kept opening the throttle and it went away.

 

The bike has Mistrals all else is stock. I did the valves and throttle bodies as well as TPS only a couple of weeks ago. Besides needing a longer warm-up period than my 02 California the bike runs like a champ.

 

I plan to get a Powercommander real soon as well as the FBF filter kit, crossover will remain stock.

 

Still getting accustomed to the noisey tranny when in neutral, which from what I have been told is commom to the V11's

 

What do you think about the pinging.

 

Mike

[Guest ratchethack]

Mike, mine does this too. Think of it as yet another feature that gives your Guzzi "character" , and chalk it up to an ancient hemi-head pushrod motor design with far-less-than-modern combustion chamber efficiency. Questionable octane gas will cause detonation on a more frequent basis. My solution - run high-octane gas and keep the rev's up. Use 6th infrequently and don't load it heavily when you do - only downhill, on trailing throttle, and/or with a tailwind. Excessive pinging under load over time can hole a piston.

 

The noise in neutral is the clutch plates playing castinets and maraccas with the clutch hub splines. Don't hold the clutch in with the bike in gear at stoplights, or you'll make the percussion section grumpy, and they could wind up splitting the band prematurely.

[edge]

I think pinging (pre-detonation) is pretty common here with V-11 series, 6th gear with a load, and lots of throttle... Much dicussion if you do a search.

 

Everything from bad combustion chamber design to low octane fuel. Mine cleared up with premium fuel, opening up the intake snorkles, and changing cans. I do not have a PC-III (it's coming) but it seems that a PC-III with the proper map, and dialed in, fuel managment is where it should be.

 

I'm sure there will be lots of pile-on re. pre-det. I am glad mine is gone and I am not sure what actually cured it. It can be pretty hard on the motor to be running it in a pinging state

 

good luck

[dlaing]

I have it too. It never seems to happen in the mountains....just on the highway or going up coastal hills. 60 to 100% throttle and 5000 to 6500 RPMs.

I am not sure of the solution.

I was going to deal with it after settling on mufflers, intakes, etc. But I should just deal with it. <_>

My guess is that setting the TPS to a higher number might help.

The idea would be to retard the ignition, rather than add fuel...and it would add fuel, too.

...I already added a fair amount of fuel, which helped, but not enough.

[dlaing]

Cliff's ECU could surely dial it out!

[luhbo]

.....

Everything from bad combustion chamber design to low octane fuel.  Mine cleared up with premium fuel, opening up the intake snorkles, and changing cans.  I do not have a PC-III (it's coming) but it seems that a PC-III with the proper map, and dialed in, fuel managment is where it should be.

.................

54102[/snapback]

 

In my eyes that's most interesting what you write, but in the first line not because of the pinging. You opened up the snorkels, I guess you removed them, and that already made the pinging a bit better. Others say that enriching makes pinging also better. So, could it be that removing the snorkels enriches ARF? That's exactly what I could experience.

Last week the left of my (or her?) snorkels fell down (missing fixation) and got melted on the exhaust. I then removed the other one also. As I use the My15M of Cliff Jefferies in closed loop mode I can clearly see that the bike now gets less air without the snorkels. The optimizer shows correction factors of -5 to -10 percent!

If you see this values and then also hear the anoying "woooooo" when you open up the throttle you think the bike runs bad (to use a friendly word). Now I really have a hole between 4 and 5000, just because there the airbox really sucks. I'm sure I do not really notice a loss of power, just because there is enough of it left, but less air of course means less power.

 

Hubert

[Paul Minnaert]

My 1000 sp had it too. To low revs in a high gear and opening the throttle made the noise. So what's new?

[Mr. Bean]

It's good to hear mine is not the only one

 

I had managed over time to dial it out with a PCIII only to get it back when I opened up the airbox. I haven't had the time to work on the map since I've done this to get rid of the pinging again. Mine pings mostly on opening the throttle full at 4000rps or so and every now and agian at higher speeds but under a load like up a long hill or heavy headwind.

 

Randy

[edge]

In my eyes that's most interesting what you write, but in the first line not because of the pinging. You opened up the snorkels, I guess you removed them, and that already made the pinging a bit better. Others say that enriching makes pinging also better. So, could it be that removing the snorkels enriches ARF? That's exactly what I could experience.

Last week the left of my (or her?) snorkels fell down (missing fixation) and got melted on the exhaust. I then removed the other one also. As I use the My15M of Cliff Jefferies in closed loop mode I can clearly see that the bike now gets less air without the snorkels. The optimizer shows correction factors of -5 to -10 percent!

If you see this values and then also hear the anoying "woooooo" when you open up the throttle you think the bike runs bad (to use a friendly word). Now I really have a hole between 4 and 5000, just because there the airbox really sucks. I'm sure I do not really notice a loss of power, just because there is enough of it left, but less air of course means less power.

 

Hubert

54119[/snapback]

 

The opening of the snorkles I was refering to was removing the stock boots and adding the modified PVC fittings to, pull air from the forward area and not the cylinder head, open the diameter and to perform a ram air type induction. It does not make sense to me to have more air stop the pinging but mine was imediatly gone. I am not sure who posted this mod first but it was easy and it worked for me

 

What further confuses me over the more air thing and pinging is this year I picked up another lid and punched 10 holes in the lid for more air flow, added the PVC snorkles (In my mind the holes in the lid would negate any benifit of ram air but the ping still has not returned). So, I'm not sure if it was the induction mod, exhaust, gas change or just breaking in but no pinging.

[jrt]

Some of it is gas, some of it is tuning, some of it is the bike's design.

I don't have problems with pinging, but I don't do WFO in low rpms (what's the point?). 6th speed is just fine for cruising- often I do leave it in 5th to avoid getting tickets, though.

How's the gas in Jersey? I know it's poor in SoCal. Here in Iowa, it seems pretty good.

 

MikeC- I would encourage you to consider getting a Stucchi Xover as well. Fitment issues aside, it really helped my bike out in the 3-5K rpm range.

[dlaing]

I don't have problems with pinging, but I don't do WFO in low rpms (what's the point?). 

Unfortunately, on modern VeeElevens the pinging problem seems to be in the maximum torque area, above 5000RPM and it can occur before WFO.

I think it is too much ignition advance combined with the other things you mentioned, "Some of it is gas, some of it is tuning, some of it is the bike's design."

Regarding the design, I imagine there are hot spots, aggravated by overly lean conditions within the map that could be causing the pinging when the engine is asked for muscle.

Likewise, carbon build up could cause pinging, so too rich could be bad, too.

So a good map will help for sure.

Also, tight valves could cause problems...

I have been meaning to try a cooler spark plug, which should not be a problem in So-Cal and may reduce the pinging.

I am using stock mufflers now to avoid the pinging....

FWIW, the Mistrals do ping more, and the Quat-D pinged more than the Mistrals, even after the tuning link.

[luhbo]

....

It does not make sense to me to have more air stop the pinging but mine was imediatly gone.  I am not sure who posted this mod first but it was easy and it worked for me 

 

What further confuses me over the more air thing and pinging is this year I picked up another lid and punched  10 holes in the lid for more air flow, added the PVC snorkles (In my mind the holes in the lid would negate any benifit of ram air but the ping still has not returned). So, I'm not sure if it was the induction mod, exhaust, gas change or just breaking in but no pinging. 

54125[/snapback]

 

That's the point. Do you see any possibility that these mods did not rise the amount of delivered air as you assumed they would?

I mean, you had a bike that pinging, you made holes and things to the airbox and the pinging was cured. Others give more gas and achieve the same effect. So I think the modded airboxes need not automatically mean an improvement.

 

Hubert

[edge]

Unfortunately, on modern VeeElevens the pinging problem seems to be in the maximum torque area, above 5000RPM and it can occur before WFO.

I think it is too much ignition advance combined with the other things you mentioned, "Some of it is gas, some of it is tuning, some of it is the bike's design."

Regarding the design, I imagine there are hot spots, aggravated by overly lean conditions within the map that could be causing the pinging when the engine is asked for muscle.

Likewise, carbon build up could cause pinging, so too rich could be bad, too.

So a good map will help for sure.

Also, tight valves could cause problems...

I have been meaning to try a cooler spark plug, which should not be a problem in So-Cal and may reduce the pinging.

I am using stock mufflers now to avoid the pinging....

FWIW, the Mistrals do ping more, and the Quat-D pinged more than the Mistrals, even after the tuning link.

54129[/snapback]

 

Valve adjustment might be another varible I might have in gertting rid of ping. The intake changes didn't make sense to me but I did euro spec the valves clearance while I was playing with the intake... Makes more sense now

[luhbo]

My 1000 sp had it too. To low revs in a high gear and opening the throttle made the noise. So what's new?

54120[/snapback]

 

Hi Paul,

 

can you give details about the ign.advance of the 4-valve engine with one central plug? What is the advance curve under full load? The theory says it should be more like the one used for dual plugged 2-valve engines, about 24° max, but I never saw any information about this topic.

 

Hubert

[jrt]

Unfortunately, on modern VeeElevens the pinging problem seems to be in the maximum torque area, above 5000RPM and it can occur before WFO.

54129[/snapback]

 

Weird- mine just doesn't seem to ping. I'll open her up above 5K and she's just fine.

 

What kind of gas mileage do you get? I'm averaging about 36 mpg (15.3 Km/L) which seems very low to me. Maybe I'm running way rich, but the plugs look nice and tan.