Guest jmnvhc Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Sorry, for duplicate. Hi all, I have a sanity check question. The front left (from seat) spacer on the axle (see pic) seems loose. I can spin it around the axle by hand, and it has about 1mm play left to right (along the axle). The rest of the wheel hub seems to be on tight to the axle, but I'm a little concerned that this could not be good. Is this normal, or at least not harmful? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Is this normal, or at least not harmful? ACK! Get ahold o' that great big nut on the end of the spindle with y'er torque wrench (or any wrench for that matter!), run a large round-shaft Phillips screwdriver through the crossways hole on the other end of the spindle, and torque 'er down to as close to 70 ft-lb. as you think you can get it - (or in the absence of a torque wrench, just reef on it good 'n hard) - and I mean before you wheel it out of y'er garage! Best before this, but after works too - you'll need to relieve any lateral stress on the fork tubes by loosening the pinch-bolts at the bottom of the right-hand side fork leg, and then carefully tighten 'em back up again as evenly as possible after bouncing the fork a few times to position the forks laterally on the spindle. Make sure you torque the spindle nut before you tighten the pinch-bolts. I'd check the left-hand side pinch-bolts for tightness, too! Is there a history of possible Neanderthal, Kuncklehead, - or in your case, (considering where you live) Bigfoot service to your front end in recent memory?! Just pullin' y'er leg, my friend. It's a heads-up observation on your part, and a good thing you caught it!!! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txrider Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Something isn't right about your front axle install. My 2004 LM has the same front axle arrangement and the spacers are not loose. I couldn't see an axle nut in your picture, is there one installed on the outboard side of the axle securing it to the l/h fork? If the pinch bolts are tight the axle isn't going to come loose. The nut, as it's tightened, removes any clearance in the axle spacers which keeps them from spinning. The spinning isn't a problem but an indication something is not installed correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmnvhc Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Okay, you guys convinced me I need to re-tighten the front axle. To answer your question ratchet, noone has touched the front since it's been initially assembled (do the wheels go on at the factory or dealership?) I've only had the bike 3 months. Anyway... what are the tightening torques for the fork pinch bolts? The service manual doesn't state it explicitly. Also, the service manual recommends to "Grease the threading and underhead of the locking nut" (spindle nut), do I really need to do this? Thanks again for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gil Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Am I reading the shop manual wrong? In mine it says the "front wheel spindle" (which I took to mean the axle bolt...never sure about these Italian to English translantions and how "they" name parts) should be "90 (division sign) 100 lbs." Me, I translated this to torque to 90 Nm. Am I wrong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Anyway... what are the tightening torques for the fork pinch bolts? The service manual doesn't state it explicitly. Also, the service manual recommends to "Grease the threading and underhead of the locking nut" (spindle nut), do I really need to do this? Jim, the torque settings for the pinch-bolts are so low (~3-5 ft-lb) that most Pro wrenches use "snug" (it's all in the wrist). Y'er garden-variety torque wrench won't have enough accuracy at this low level to be of any use. But you really, REALLY don't want to overdo it here and risk stripping out the fork lowers...This is just me, but because these threads tend to accumulate road crud, I spin a bronze bore-brush dipped in lacquer thinner as a solvent through the threads to clean 'em out, likewise clean the bolt threads, then use threadlocker, and take 'em up uniformly snug, so's to keep an even grip on the spindle. To answer your question, I'd follow the recommendation of the manual to grease the threads of the spindle and under the locknut. It ensures a consistent torque reading (not that it's any too critical here) and ensures against corrosion/freezing of the nut. It's a good idea (especially where you live) to put a light coating of grease on the entire spindle also (except where the right-side fork pinch bolts grip the spindle - keep this part dry). Greasing the spindle lowers the probability of spacers freezing solid on 'em. Again, this is just me, but with every bike I've owned, as soon as I take delivery, I spend the first available afternoon with the manual in a "Trust, But Verify" session. I go over every critical nut and bolt that I can get to, and at least make sure things aren't coming loose!! With a new Guzzi, this is a perfect opportunity to thread-lock every bolt that came dry (this is nearly all ) and grease every engineered-for-grease-yet-dry-from-Mandello spot on the bike. There are lots of posts on this here if you do a search, and you can do the most convenient things first (shaft splines and hub splines) and other stuff later (cush drive collar and rubber blocks, shift lever shaft, shock eyes, etc.). I highly recommend it as a great "bonding" experience. It puts you in touch with the machine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Am I reading the shop manual wrong? In mine it says the "front wheel spindle" (which I took to mean the axle bolt...never sure about these Italian to English translantions and how "they" name parts) should be "90 (division sign) 100 lbs." Me, I translated this to torque to 90 Nm. Am I wrong here? Gil, spindle = axle, and y'er not wrong in your translation. 95 Nm is 70 ft-lb. As Pete has been known to lament, it's not critical to get spindle torque spot-on. It's not nearly as critical as cylinder head bolt torques, f'er instance. I go by the book on spindle nut torque just because I don't trust myself not to over-torque, and I usually can't remember what the spec is for each spindle on 2 bikes, so I always have to look it up. But like Pete says, Guzzi spindles are so over-engineered that you're more'n safe just gettin' a good honkin' reef on it. The "weak links" in the otherwise over-engineered hub assemblies are the cheesy bearing spacers between the bearings inside the hub. Over-torquing will make 'em compress and deform, and this'll take out y'er bearings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 You have the newer hollow front axle on your 04. I don't remember which side the axle nut is on the hollow axle, is it on the right or the left side of the bike? Perhaps a picture from the side would be helpful. Either way there should be no play in the spacer and the spacer goes on the nut side of the wheel. Just as a note, I purchased a used 2002 California Special Sport and when I was cleaning it, I noticed that the front axle spacer was placed on the wrong side of the wheel . The front wheel had never been off before so either the factory screwed up or the dealer did . The bike also had 6000 miles on it Kind of scary. Mike Sorry, for duplicate. Hi all, I have a sanity check question. The front left (from seat) spacer on the axle (see pic) seems loose. I can spin it around the axle by hand, and it has about 1mm play left to right (along the axle). The rest of the wheel hub seems to be on tight to the axle, but I'm a little concerned that this could not be good. Is this normal, or at least not harmful? Thanks. 81831[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grossohc Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 You have the newer hollow front axle on your 04. I don't remember which side the axle nut is on the hollow axle, is it on the right or the left side of the bike? Perhaps a picture from the side would be helpful. Either way there should be no play in the spacer and the spacer goes on the nut side of the wheel. Just as a note, I purchased a used 2002 California Special Sport and when I was cleaning it, I noticed that the front axle spacer was placed on the wrong side of the wheel . The front wheel had never been off before so either the factory screwed up or the dealer did . The bike also had 6000 miles on it Kind of scary. Mike 81905[/snapback] Just out looking at my bike and if you have the the hollow axle, the spacer is on the wrong side and it would not just be the spacer that moves the wheel would move side to side as well, The axle should not be sticking out the right side like that it should be flush with the fork(my bike has ohlins fork but it should be the same). Put the axle through from the right side (looking from the front) and the step on tthe axle touchs the wheel bearing, put the spacer on the left side between fork and wheel then tighten up nut then pinch bolts. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmnvhc Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Just out looking at my bike and if you have the the hollow axle, the spacer is on the wrong side and it would not just be the spacer that moves the wheel would move side to side as well, The axle should not be sticking out the right side like that it should be flush with the fork(my bike has ohlins fork but it should be the same). Put the axle through from the right side (looking from the front) and the step on tthe axle touchs the wheel bearing, put the spacer on the left side between fork and wheel then tighten up nut then pinch bolts. Gary 81966[/snapback] Okay, you're right about the entire wheel moving left to right (a little concerning) However, the spacer is on the correct side. It's impossible that it is installed incorrectely, because the hollow axle, since it is larger on one end, can only be installed in one direction. So looking AT the front of the bike (staring at headlight) the order from LEFT to RIGHT goes: left fork with large end of axle (spindle), wheel and hub (bearings, etc), spacer, right fork, nut. I hope that this is what you meant? If not, one of us is in trouble I did loosen up the pinch bolts, tighten up the spindle nut and re-tighten all around. No more gaps, everything's snug. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 No more gaps, everything's snug. Glad to hear it, Jim. Did you happen to check the rear spindle? Just askin'! BTW & FWIW, with all due respect and in utmost, sincere humility - and no offense whatsoever intended here. For future reference, there are universally accepted conventions for clarity of communication when it comes to both servicing and operating all vehicles, whether it be boats, aircraft, cars, or motorcycles. The right-hand side (starboard, "stab'd" on aircraft and boats) is always the same - no matter from which direction you observe the vehicle. Just as it would be with your own body, these terms don't reverse when you walk around to the front of the vehicle to look at it. Just a happy, and hopefully helpful FYI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmnvhc Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Glad to hear it, Jim. Did you happen to check the rear spindle? Just askin'! BTW & FWIW, with all due respect and in utmost, sincere humility - and no offense whatsoever intended here. For future reference, there are universally accepted conventions for clarity of communication when it comes to both servicing and operating all vehicles, whether it be boats, aircraft, cars, or motorcycles. The right-hand side (starboard, "stab'd" on aircraft and boats) is always the same - no matter from which direction you observe the vehicle. Just as it would be with your own body, these terms don't reverse when you walk around to the front of the vehicle to look at it. Just a happy, and hopefully helpful FYI... 82045[/snapback] Aye aye cap'n But no, I didn't check rear spindle... but I have heard enough about the space on the rear to be weary of it. BTW, the name's Jose, but you can call me Jim... I've been called far worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I remember seeing the movie Titanic and thinking how they may have made a titanic blunder by scripting the command, 'hard to starboard' when the iceberg was centered to starboard side of the collision course. The helmsman made what appeared to be the correct move of turning the wheel counter-clockwise. As it turns out, it is all good and 'hard to starboard' means turn the ship to the left. At sometime in history, I understand the command meant to the left and later it meant to the right. Confusing. More on how I was enlightened, here: http://www.nitpickers.com/movies/nitpick.cgi?np=298 Another confusing thing is stage left vs. audience right. Do Directors give orders in stage or audience terminology? I seem to recall they avoid the issue IMHO when posting an image taken from the front of a land vehicle, it is prudent to carefully describe right and left and not assume that everyone understands universal conventions. (sorry, did not mean to start another relativist vs. absolutist thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grossohc Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Okay, you're right about the entire wheel moving left to right (a little concerning) However, the spacer is on the correct side. It's impossible that it is installed incorrectely, because the hollow axle, since it is larger on one end, can only be installed in one direction. So looking AT the front of the bike (staring at headlight) the order from LEFT to RIGHT goes: left fork with large end of axle (spindle), wheel and hub (bearings, etc), spacer, right fork, nut. I hope that this is what you meant? If not, one of us is in trouble I did loosen up the pinch bolts, tighten up the spindle nut and re-tighten all around. No more gaps, everything's snug. Thanks all. 82035[/snapback] That is the order on my bike except in reverse , as long as the spacer is on the side with the nut there is no problem, everything is tight. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trispeed Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I have a 2004 sport with marz forks; the (hollow) axle nut is on the left side (clutch lever side) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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