dlaing Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 This 'reliable,usable ' 110 hp figure could only be acheived with both liquid cooling, and overhead can technology. 82724[/snapback] ...or more displacement If I had a choice of going 400cc bigger or 400cc smaller, it would be no question, supersize it please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 ...or more displacement If I had a choice of going 400cc bigger or 400cc smaller, it would be no question, supersize it please! 82738[/snapback] Agreed, but only if engine mass does not become too much. Such is the reason Harley Davidson does not put their V-Rod engine into a Buell. Ciao, Steve G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 ...or more displacement If I had a choice of going 400cc bigger or 400cc smaller, it would be no question, supersize it please! I haven't been very much interested in the "bigger, better, faster" trends for about 20 years now, so I'm pretty much in the dark here. But it would seem to me that in their never-ending pursuit of one-upsmanship, the mfgr's are being forced up against hard displacement limitations now, simply because adding displacement increases emissions. So among their core challenges going forward would seem to be to continue to come up with technologies and materials that deliver greater output with less displacement - hence the concept of the hyper-techno, berserker-RPM, ultra-peaky, 175 bhp 600-4's... Or am I just dreaming this up? I reckon I'll be riding an old ditch-pump motor Guzzi pretty much from now on, thanks just the same... BAA, TJM, & YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 simply because adding displacement increases emissions. 82763[/snapback] Do the tyrants measure emissions as Moles of pollutants per Mile, Moles per RPM, or percentage of mixture. If it is percentage, the displacement might not have that great of an effect. I am sure an 850 LeMans had as much trouble getting by 1984 emissions as V11LeMans has getting by emissions in 2004, even though the 850 probably gets five or ten MPG. I don't think the tyrants are very smart, and I think they measure only the percentage, which may be why we have seen the trend towards greater displacement. I remember doomsayers saying the aircooled engine would be dead by year 2000 because of emission standards. About the only fix has been fuel injection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan M Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Do the tyrants measure emissions as Moles of pollutants per Mile, Moles per RPM, or percentage of mixture.If it is percentage, the displacement might not have that great of an effect. I am sure an 850 LeMans had as much trouble getting by 1984 emissions as V11LeMans has getting by emissions in 2004, even though the 850 probably gets five or ten MPG. I don't think the tyrants are very smart, and I think they measure only the percentage, which may be why we have seen the trend towards greater displacement. I remember doomsayers saying the aircooled engine would be dead by year 2000 because of emission standards. About the only fix has been fuel injection. 82791[/snapback] EPA measures pollutants by weight. Hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen are the offenders Grams per mile is the standard of measurement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 EPA measures pollutants by weight. Hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen are the offenders Grams per mile is the standard of measurement. 82796[/snapback] Actually, it's parts per million: I think only CARB uses grams/mile in their "LEV/SLEV/XLEV/ILEV/EV" [1] ratings... Ride on! [1] - Low Emissions Vehicle, SuperLow EV, eXcruciatingly LEV, Idiotically LEV, Electric Vehicle. Interesting how the last category actually puts more emissions into the environment than any of the former, but I guess since the coal-fired powerplants are in another state it's O.K... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Do the tyrants measure emissions as Moles of pollutants per Mile, Moles per RPM, or percentage of mixture. Now Dave, we've gotta draw the line on nerd behavior somewhere. I reckon you and I are without much question among the most guilty 'round here... But consider the rest of your peers here, my man! I'm sorry, but I'm compelled to blow the whistle on bringin' up Avogadro's number on a motorcycle forum! However, I'm willin' to grant you a "pass" in this case - but only because Avogadro was the first chair of mathematical physics at Turin University, Italia... (Incidentally, the man seems to've also been a bit of a rake, being married with 4 children, he was at the same time known as a "discreet ladies' man"... If Guzzi had been founded a hundred years earlier, he'd surely have been a Guzzista...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan M Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Actually, it's parts per million: I think only CARB uses grams/mile in their "LEV/SLEV/XLEV/ILEV/EV" [1] ratings... In Illinois we use grams per mile. Before current type of testing it was parts per million for HC and percent for CO. AFAIK, any state that uses IM240 testing measures in grams per mile. It is all moot though since bikes are not tested. At least not here. When onboard emission diagnostics makes its way to motorcycles (and it will) there will be very little room for modifications. More reason to keep your old bikes. Sorry nerdyness RH, back to Griso vs V11 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 V10 vs Griso shootout from the Centauro Owners Group forum. V10 vs Griso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Now Dave, we've gotta draw the line on nerd behavior somewhere. I reckon you and I are without much question among the most guilty 'round here... But consider the rest of your peers here, my man! I'm sorry, but I'm compelled to blow the whistle on bringin' up Avogadro's number on a motorcycle forum! 82830[/snapback] Q: How many atoms in a guacamole? A: Avocado's number... Nerd humour. Ain't it gran... er, sad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Q: How many atoms in a guacamole?A: Avocado's number... Nerd humour. Ain't it gran... er, sad? Skeeve, you've been buckin' for most guilty status for a long time. This may've just put you over the line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gthyni Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 BMW R1200S has 120 BHPs with SOHC, 4V-heads and 1170cc. Ducati Testastretta has a bit more with 998 cc I'm with ratchethack on this one, anything over 100 BHP is quiet useless outside the race track. Better spend effort to loose some weight both off the bike and off the waistline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Well, if you're going to stay with the daft hemi combustion chamber, yeah... Still, finding a pair of square heads at a fair price to modify w/ bathtub chambers eludes me; seems that anytime someone parts out their bike, it's either an old roundie being truly parted out, or a later vintage Guzzi with the engine sold as a unit & the rest being parted. Don't bogart those heads! 82620[/snapback] SO what's fiar? I have a set of LM 1000 heads that are already modified with bath-tub chambers and dual plugs. You have to use them with flat-top pistons. Make me an offer. Or, shit, maybe I'll put them on the Billy Bob? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 SO what's fiar? I have a set of LM 1000 heads that are already modified with bath-tub chambers and dual plugs. You have to use them with flat-top pistons. Make me an offer. Or, shit, maybe I'll put them on the Billy Bob? 83596[/snapback] Wow, bathtubs & dp'd? You've got one of Cliff Jeffries' boxes of electronic magic or the system DLaing is messin' with to dial back the advance? Seems to me you're in a prime position to really help determine just how much more efficient the old donk could be; dyno ol' Billy, throw the new(old) heads on & redyno Bob to see if being able to dial back the advance to something more modern like in the 18deg range really makes that much of a difference! As far as what's "fair," that can only be determined by a willing seller & buyer; since I'm pretty dang broke, my fair is probably a lot less than your's! Ride on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Q: How many atoms in a guacamole?A: Avocado's number... Nerd humour. Ain't it gran... er, sad? 83431[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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