Guest Nogbad Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I am about to order everything I need for my 12000 service from Motomecca. The infamous breather hose from the top of the bellhousing to the frame is cracked badly, and whilst it isn't yet leaking I think it would be opportune to swap it out when I have everything off for the service. Unfortunately, there are a load of hoses listed on the motomecca page: Motomecca Which one do I need. I bet it's the most expensive one! What fork oil do you recommend? At the moment I have the fork backed almost off coz my old bones need a soft ride so I was thinking of swapping to a thinner oil. How about common or garden ATF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nog, the stock replacement breather hoses are the same substandard crap as the original. I wouldn't use 'em, as they're such a pain to change out -- you don't want to do this any more often than absolutely necessary. There are many posts on this. I'd recommend a quality high-temp-rated bulk hose replacement. I think what I found was rated at 280 F. Using bulk hose requires 2 ea. "ell" fittings, since of course it's not molded to shape. There's also a molded Ford hose and I think another automotive hose from Gates that seems to fit, and is also higher temp rated than OEM. After experimenting with replacement oils in the Marz 40 mm fork, my personal choice to augment springs upgraded by 50% higher rate to match my weight (180 lb.) is synthetic 125/150 CARTRIDGE FORK FLUID. I'm using Golden Spectro. It allows you to use more of the range on your comp & rebound settings and gives noticably more responsive fork action than the recommended dino 10 wt FORK OIL. Synthetic should have a much longer service life than dino as well - that is, I have no HARD EVIDENCE of this, but I believe it should, based on general higher durability of synthetic over dino. But of course there are those who believe that all fork oils have an indefinite service life...... BTW - if y'er still riding on the stock .6 kg/mm fork springs, the ride will be much more HARSH than if you have properly up-rated springs of .9 - 1.1 kg/mm, depending on your weight and riding style. That's right - stiffer springs offer a much more "plush", softer, more comfy ride. This is counter-intuitive unless you understand the principles involved. With the stock .6 kg/mm springs, you either have to add too much preload spacer to get the laden sag right (whereby the unladen sag is then far too low) or, if you should happen to be ignoring sags and preload altogether , y'er riding around on probably an inch or even less of travel in the compression direction, substantially on the AIR SPRING at the end of fork travel. This is a HARSH RIDE! I used target ranges of 30-35% laden sag and 15-20% unladen, and hit it very close to perfect with my replacement springs. This can double or triple your fork travel in the compression direction. In my case, the ride was IMMEDIATELY more comfortable - as well as doing wonders for handling and brake-dive. There are a few good posts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nog, the stock replacement breather hoses are the same substandard crap as the original. I wouldn't use 'em, as they're such a pain to change out -- you don't want to do this any more often than absolutely necessary. There are many posts on this. I'd recommend a quality high-temp-rated bulk hose replacement. I think what I found was rated at 280 F. Using bulk hose requires 2 ea. "ell" fittings, since of course it's not molded to shape. There's also a molded Ford hose and I think another automotive hose from Gates that seems to fit, and is also higher temp rated than OEM. After experimenting with replacement oils in the Marz 40 mm fork, my personal choice to augment springs upgraded by 50% higher rate to match my weight (180 lb.) is synthetic 125/150 CARTRIDGE FORK FLUID. I'm using Golden Spectro. It allows you to use more of the range on your comp & rebound settings and gives noticably more responsive fork action than the recommended dino 10 wt FORK OIL. Synthetic should have a much longer service life than dino as well - that is, I have no HARD EVIDENCE of this, but I believe it should, based on general higher durability of synthetic over dino. But of course there are those who believe that all fork oils have an indefinite service life...... BTW - if y'er still riding on the stock .6 kg/mm fork springs, the ride will be much more HARSH than if you have properly up-rated springs of .9 - 1.1 kg/mm, depending on your weight and riding style. That's right - stiffer springs offer a much more "plush", softer, more comfy ride. This is counter-intuitive unless you understand the principles involved. With the stock .6 kg/mm springs, you either have to add too much preload spacer to get the laden sag right (whereby the unladen sag is then far too low) or, if you should happen to be ignoring sags and preload altogether , y'er riding around on probably an inch or even less of travel in the compression direction, substantially on the AIR SPRING at the end of fork travel. This is a HARSH RIDE! I used target ranges of 30-35% laden sag and 15-20% unladen, and hit it very close to perfect with my replacement springs. This can double or triple your fork travel in the compression direction. In my case, the ride was IMMEDIATELY more comfortable - as well as doing wonders for handling and brake-dive. There are a few good posts on this. 91566[/snapback] Thanks Hatch, I do understand the spring rate problem, and I guess I am doing what you say for the ignoring scenario and running on the bottom of the travel with air effect because it is damn harsh from time to time. I think I'll get some higher rated springs. In full leathers I'm about 180 lb so would you recommend 0.9? You quote US fork fluid so I have no idea what to buy in the UK. If they have 10wt in at the moment I consider the oil too thick. Dextron ATF is between 5W and 8W I think so would be a lower viscosity choice that is readily available and cheap. Some Honda forks use it as standard. I think the rear Sachs is horrible. Unfortunately, because I have regularly sprayed the "eye" with ACF50 it is in perfect condition and I have no excuse to change it. On the breather, my bike is 5 years old. The OEM hose is going to be the right shape and I can swap it out easily. I seriously can't be arsed to mess about with other hose, elbow fittings or related mallarkey if a new OEM hose gives me another 5 years. So, if you can bring yourself to do it, please identify the right hose from Motomecca's list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 You quote US fork fluid so I have no idea what to buy in the UK. If they have 10wt in at the moment I consider the oil too thick. Dextron ATF is between 5W and 8W I think so would be a lower viscosity choice that is readily available and cheap. Some Honda forks use it as standard.91575[/snapback] FWIW I have read that you can mix 5wt and 10wt fork oil 50-50 to get 7.5wt. I've done it and it seemed to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bean Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 If you are talking about item #18 then the part number is 30157400. If it's #14 then it's part number 01007200. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rotorhead Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Reference this thread..... http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7347&hl= this might be an even better thread http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...opic=1301&st=15 I used this hose .....NAPA Part# NBH 10912 with minor modification i.e. cutting the ends a bit. I've had in on for 3k so far with no ill effects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 In full leathers I'm about 180 lb so would you recommend 0.9? I'm now 190 lb. with full leathers (put on a few lbs since my last guesstimate ) but .9 kg/mm for a straight rate spring (no more than this for your weight) would be about right IMHO for either of us. I think you could also go with a .85 if available - but neither would be "wrong" - either would be a night 'n day improvement and with correct preload, allow y'er sags to come out in ideal ranges for the road, IMHO. The Wilbers progressive .7-1.0 kg/mm I put in are also ideal and more closely fit a slightly wider range of loads than straight rate. You quote US fork fluid so I have no idea what to buy in the UK. If they have 10wt in at the moment I consider the oil too thick. Dextron ATF is between 5W and 8W I think so would be a lower viscosity choice that is readily available and cheap. 125/150 synthetic is equivalent to 5 wt. IMHO, ATF would be better than 10 wt. As Dave pointed out, you can go with different viscosities right and left, as this is an "assymetric" fork. Generally, I tend to use about double the rebound setting than I do compression. It starts to get a little confusing if you split viscosities R&L, but it'd allow you a little more flexibility in adjustment if that tickles y'er fancy......... I think the rear Sachs is horrible. Unfortunately, because I have regularly sprayed the "eye" with ACF50 it is in perfect condition and I have no excuse to change it. You oughtta "sweat" it a little harder, Nog - give y'erself a reason for an upgrade - unfortunately, you wouldn't get to choose a time & place for the immediate need......might not be too pleasant if the account "came due" tapped-out in 5th........ On the breather, my bike is 5 years old. The OEM hose is going to be the right shape and I can swap it out easily. I seriously can't be arsed to mess about with other hose, elbow fittings or related mallarkey if a new OEM hose gives me another 5 years. So, if you can bring yourself to do it, please identify the right hose from Motomecca's list! If putting "ells" in is too much work, you might consider sweating this one until she blows.........getting any new hose in is a right frontbottom (to steal a term from PR). I'd be happy to give you the number for the stock replacement but it looks like Randy beat me to the punch..... Have fun, Nogster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Can anyone post me a link as to where to order a pair of uprated front springs in the UK? On the sag setting, what do you do? Measure without spacers and then subtract the ideal sag value from the actual, the difference being the length of spacer needed? I think my little Toyo lathe is big enough to turn some right length spacers from ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 On the sag setting, what do you do? Measure without spacers and then subtract the ideal sag value from the actual, the difference being the length of spacer needed? I think my little Toyo lathe is big enough to turn some right length spacers from ally. Nog, please forgive if I'm covering what for you is obvious. The best way to approach this IMHO is to install the new springs with the stock spacers and then measure laden sag. The stock spacers shouldn't be too far off. Go longer or shorter with spacers until the laden sag is within your target range. Again - the object is to get BOTH laden and unladen sags within the target ranges you choose. For example: If you have a target laden sag of 30%, this is 36 mm (120 mm fork travel x .3). If the new springs and stock spacers give you 30 mm laden sag, you need to shorten the spacers by 6 mm. The trick is to then make sure the UNLADEN sag ALSO falls within your target range. There is no exact way to hit them both perfectly by direct measurement the first time, but this will get you close. By experimenting with a few different lengths, you'll have 'er dialed-in in no time. A small lathe would be perfect for sizing spacers, 'cause this way you can be sure to have the ends square. I use PVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 There is no exact way to hit them both perfectly by direct measurement the first time, but this will get you close. 91623[/snapback] If one gets the straight rate springs, the change in sag should equal the change in spacer, relatively exactly. Therefore, there is a relatively exact way to hit them both relatively perfectly...but like ratchet indicated, absolute perfection won't be reached the first time....not that there is any such thing as perfect sag... If one gets the Wilbers springs, the change in sag will be less than the change in spacer, due to the rising rate. The progressive springs make sizing a spacer more difficult. But if someone like Ratchet could tell you what length to cut the spacer, considering you are both about the same weight, you should be fine. And you might find Wilbers springs here http://www.everyaccessory.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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