Chris Wilson
-
Posts
148 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
2
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Gallery
Community Map
Posts posted by Chris Wilson
-
-
1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:
Certainly for the cam drive, that's how the Griso works. The problem for the main drive is a 2:1 reduction doesn't work mechanically for a load like the main drive on a twin because of gear tooth wear, unless it's chain. That's why Ducati always use of late 1.87:1 or some other similar ratio .....
Ah, are we talking about a hunting tooth to prevent wear?
-
51 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
We're all guessing to some extent.
Ciao
Having another gander at the engine side view I guessimate that the main power take off is at the front of the crank, does a 2:1 reduction onto a lay shaft that lies between the V and then drives 2 short chains to the DOHC's.
Most modern bikes do a reduction before clutch.
The layshaft then powers the rear mounted clutch, starter motor and alternator.
The rear clutch pack looks to be serviceable by only removing the rear tyre and working it from the right side of the bike.
Cheers, Chris.
-
22 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
Drive to the cams is at the rear of the cylinders but at the front will probably be a gear drive to a jackshaft for the cam chain drive like a Griso engine..
Ciao
Must admit I am guessing on the above.
Thanks.
-
1
-
1
-
-
6 minutes ago, docc said:
And also that the V100 drives the shaft from the left side. So, where is the gearbox? "Unit construction?"
And what is the big lump at the front? Crank driven alternator, Tonti-stlye?
Cam chain drive.
-
2
-
-
20 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
Thanks for that. I see the jagged line on the image manipulation. Looking at the shrouds on the header pipes I think they are to deflect hot air from the headers off the riders feet. I wonder why they manipulated the image of the front engine cover anyway, they also did it in one of the "whole bike" images as well.
Ciao
Hi,
The shrouds or diagonal brace on the inner curve to me is there for resonance reasons.
My guess is that it's only clamped onto the header at either end and the middle had to fend for itself suffering tunning fork like vibrations along its stamped sheet metal length. Fatigue looks likely if not braced.
As to the image manipulation, you are being too kind, if I could channel my inner Roper here, it is done by shaved apes and is totally an unintentional mistake.
Chris.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:
What do you mean by this? Just out of interest.
Ciao
Deep etching is the process of eliminating unwanted portions of an image is usually done via a path and a mask but can be hacked with a magic wand or eraser in Photoshop.
My educated guess is that since it takes skill to draw an accurate path, wanding or selecting was used and I will back that assertion up by the presence of jagged lines, artifacts present and basically no regard of what the image is and the result needed.
Witness the radiator shroud robbing part of the engines side view.
A professional would have cloned that area in with regard to showing the complete shape of the engine minus foreground articles covering subject detail.
Mechanical edges should always be crisp and sharp, organic edges can suffer a degree of inaccuracy - but an engine block? No, the job is crap.
Too much of an answer?
-
2
-
-
.jpeg.3ebcd05ca0fb7ff3cf96df1beff973a8.jpeg)
So why is the clutch hydraulic slave cylinder still at the back of the gear box if the clutch pack is at the front?
Looks like the cassette containing the plates is at the back.
-
1
-
-
22 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
Here's some Guzzi/Piaggio marketing trickery. I assumed the new engine would use the BMW R1250 style clutch at the front of the engine and a jackshaft to drive the gearbox and Pete Roper mentioned it did also, not sure his sources or he assumed like I did. I was looking at this Guzzi PR image looking for the tell tale evidence on the front engine cover and noticed the image manipulation. Notice in the first image how the front engine cover has been digitally trimmed away compared to the second image to disguise the forward clutch design. look how the fwd engine cover in the second image is aligned transversely with the front edge of the header pipe, then look at the first image.
That is just incredibly bad deep etching on the image.
Chris (retired graphic artist with 40 years experience fixing up rubbish work just like this.)
-
Yeah I believe that heat emminating from. V2 Panagali is best described as 'insane.'
And not so much for the Enfield, any Enfield since the square 4 'Squaffer.' (Dad had one of those in 1963 with side car and it's incredible package roasted the rear cylinders.)
-
I agree that liquid cooling is superior but the configuration bothers me.
Logically having to sit astride a heat exchange engine and then having its main cooling system in front of that is akin to having a front engine car with the driver sitting in the engine bay.
Great on a cool day, murder on a hot one.
Far better to place the radiator behind the rider.
For me liquid cooling reduces differential expansion by allowing the heat to more evenly distribute.
Less differential expansion allows closer tolerances and everything flows from there.
Interesting topic, thanks.
-
At 2500 rpm I wonder if enough oil was circulating to conduct heat away.
Chris.
-
As an aside here I have the excellent Beetle map installed, iteration 2.
Mark 1 map was perfect, too perfect in fact and would only run fantastically on a prewarmed engine.
But when starting from cold the engine was a bit 'dry' and lean, and would easily stall at the smallest applied load on take off.
Enter the even more excellent mark 2 map with a bit more fuel added across the range and I am back down to a three minute warm up before my cold blooded reptilian bike even thinks that it likes to pull out of the garage without the fast idle collar still being rotated.
I honestly can't think of a better air cooled motorcycle of this size for handling traffic, let's face it, when you live in Australia's largest capital you are going to face more stop start than high speed cruising.
Chris.
-
Ok, but you would have to admit that a 45 minute phone call is a constructed stupidity.
In the real world when sitting astride the vehicle my contention is that the rider expire long before engine damage sets in. That and any one with an ounce of wit would turn the vehicle off if stopped more than a few minutes.
If that's not the case then I am riding one very damaged Bellagio.
Chris
-
24 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
Ok so I looked at the Bellagio owners manual and the ambient temp indicator. If that is taking it's reading off the air intake sensor then in traffic it would be pretty useless as the engine will be idling off hot engine air.
So the actual OAT would be lower if the dash indication uses the IAT sensor. Lucky your bike doesn't have a bulk oil temp indication.
As for the the air cooled Guzzi's ability to happily sit in traffic idling in summer weather well yours must be the only one in the world that can happily cope. Don't know what was wrong with your BMW or what BM it was but both my K100RS's and were fine in city traffic on a hot day and yes the thermo fans operated as would be expected but no fuel boiling issues.
To say that an air cooled engines in general and Guzzi's in particular cope with the hot traffic condition you describe goes against all logical comparisons and evidence.
Pete Roper has experience with engines damaged by prolonged idling and not even in hot conditions. Maybe he'll give us the benefit of his practical customer experience in the matter.
Ciao
Hi again Phil,
I had a K75 for 10 years and being a three cylinder made less heat than the K100, and my bike had foil insulation under tank that was designed to prevent fuel boiling and yet under extremes it did not stop it.
BMW had a recall on the K100's to address the same. Norges had the same issue but I digress.
In real world riding I know that liquid cooling protects the engine better than air but is worse for the rider in extreme conditions.
Engines being heat exchange units have to reject heat somewhere and with an air cooled Vee twin at idle the hottest areas are the furthest away from the rider and heat simply rises when there is no flow.
Liquid cooling in extreme temps needs air flow and guess who suffers at the expense of the engine?
My bike, a short stroke big block with massive finnage and deep sump that really is designed for a much bigger engine handles temps on the edge of human endurance just fine.
Wouldn't want to prove that all the time but I have proved it in heavy traffic again and again.
As far as 'real' big blocks like the Griso I remember them as being and I quote 'vastly overcooled' so it's hard to imagine that having a 200cc smaller engine is going to counter that comment.
Chris.
-
27 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
So what your saying is on a Sydney summers day sitting in heavy traffic lets say a 38deg C OAT day your engine oil temp was only 14 dec C higher than atmospheric temp. That doesn't even make any sense. The normal operating oil temp for your engine is around 90-100 deg C. You should get your bikes indication checked. At 54 deg C your engine is still on the warm up fuel trim. You have an indication issue.
Ciao
No I am saying that the dash temp read 52 and that dependant on the air intake sensor.
My seat on pants thermometer more than backed this up as I was close to passing out whilst riding.
Now if this was my old BMW the fuel would have boiled and the thermo fan would have cut in throwing super heated air directly at my thighs.
But the old tech Guzzi took this in its stride.
Chris.
-
45 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
I've never found sitting on the side of the road with an overheating engine waiting for it to cool down before you can continue riding to be particularly cool myself.
Ciao
Phil, noted in another forum elsewhere but, my 1950's technology air cooled dinosaur read 52 Celcius on the dash whilst stuck in traffic on Parramatta Road in the middle of summer and it was so hot in the sun it was actually cooler with my gloves on!
And yet the engine was fine.
I defy any liquid cooled bike to survive that and not have the fan kick in and promptly roast your legs.
Probably down to using the best synth. oil and having THE best design for air cooling ever.
Chris.
-
Happy with the Bellagio.
Dodged the tappet issue, far superior range, seat is fantastically comfortable and power suits the Tonti frame.
Never ridden a Griso but not many Griso owners may have ridden a Bellagio.
Chris.
-
On 9/13/2021 at 9:52 PM, pete roper said:
Errr? No.
1100 Sport and then the V11's use a solid swingarm but the bevelbox itself is free to move on the rear wheel spindle.
The CARC bikes use a reactive bridge within a solid casing that moves in relation to swingarm on what are effectively the wheel bearings within the case that support the crownwheel and pinion.
With this new swingarm it just seems to be a rigid arm with a bevelbox bolted to the end but there is no tether rod to transfer the torsional forces to the frame of the vehicle meaning that as the pinion tries to climb the crownwheel it will exert an upward force on the arm. That makes the suspension unable to remain compliant and prevents it doing its job.
Likewise on downchanges the tendency will be to compress the suspension and unload the rear tyre leading to tyre hop and loss of traction.
Yeah I know how it works Pete and this is the third shaft driven bike that I have owned.
I was just wishful thinking that you 'could' take a CARC bevel box, bolt it on with a double uni jointed from drive and run the rod back to the frame.
The swing arm does seem to allow for the vertical movement for the second uni.
But as I said, wishful thinking.
Chris.
-
Isn't that what Guzzi did with the 1100 sport?
What is to stop them from adding a CARC and a reaction rod in a different model?
The front swing arm casting looks to have enough vertical section to handle movement so it's just a matter of swapping out the rear.
Chris.
-
Hi Footloose,
I find it curious that if you asked the Guzzista 20 years ago what they wanted improved in their bikes you would get -
More power
Better brakes
Lighter weight
More reliable
More, more, more.
And yet when they actually get 'more' they fall back on well it ain't like the old stuff so it's not what I am looking for.
What's a bet that Guzzi will offer a customisation suite that is Clan based to cover off every asthetic whim imaginable.
Don't like the fairing?
Here choose another style that will simply snap on.
Want a reactive drive?
Go for the R version, it simply bolts on.
I can see it coming a mile away.
Chris.
-
1
-
1
-
-
Have read this topic with interest and there are some things I would like to comment on.
Rising rate suspension, to me it's a bit of a gimmick if you only have between 4 to 6 " of travel and here with the forward cant of the rear shock and progressive wound spring it has it mildly built in anyway.
The lack of reaction rod, with the swinging arm the length of an oil barge the squat will be minimal and hey, let's call it character and further consider it's a 'sports' bike not a racer. That and the lack of linkage and joints cuts down on unsprung weight.
The fairing, consider what it had to hide, headlights, induction system (massive), fuel load, frame, be a radiator shroud, electricals with most likely the battery hiding up under it AND it has to be aerodynamic, look good and be the mobile bill board for Guzzi signage. I think that it looks just fine and comparing it to say a Le Man's that houses almost nothing seems a bit silly. If you want to compare then pit it against the Stelvio.
The movable side vents, just wondering if this is more of a hot air exit than anything else, you know, hot day, fan kicks in, vent opens, hot air rises etc. Seems like a good thing to me.
Enough for now, Chris.
-
3
-
Moto Guzzi V100
in Newer models
Posted
But Pete, like sex, the anticipation outweighs the event, exploded diagrams included!